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CLOCK HELP
Help!
400
Day clocks - Weight
Driven clocks - Spring
Driven Clocks - Cuckoo
Clocks
Replacing a movement
Introduction
Identifying the movement
Is your movement made by Hermle?
Seth Thomas clock owners
Mason and Sullivan clock owners
Jauch clock owners
If no luck yet
Repairing a movement
Putting a clock in beat
Ticks then stops
No ticking at all
Chiming the wrong time
Setting up the quarter hour chime
Cleaning without disassembling the movement
Cleaning a disassembled movement
Replacing a Movement
Introduction:
A clock movement is the part of the clock that has all the gearing
in it. The movement is often called these other names:
the "clockworks" or the clock "inners" or the "motor". They all just mean
the part of the clock that is doing the work, the two brass plates with all the
gears in it. The dial, hands, pendulum (if it has one), and weights (if it has
them) attach to the movement and are not included with a new replacement.
If your clock was made from around 1965 to the present day, there is
hope to get a new movement to replace your old one. Replacing is better
than repairing because the new movements are free from bushing wear and
sometimes the maker of the movements improve them over time. To pay someone
to overhaul a movement that is still made does not make sense because the
cost would be about the same to get a brand new unit. We often charge even
more to overhaul a movement then we sell new ones for. This is because
of the time and effort involved with the overhaul.
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Identifying the movement:
First thing to do is to get all the information off of the back plate
of the clock movement itself and write it down. Be sure to remove the weights
and pendulum if the case is to be moved to get to the movement. Do not
make the mistake of looking for the model number of the clock, this number
is on the paperwork that comes with the clock and is not what is needed
to replace the movement. As stated above, the numbers needed are on the
back plate of the movement itself.
75% of the replacement movements we sell, are made by Hermle.
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Is your movement made by Hermle?:
Hermle makes movements for various cabinet makers and marks there
name onto the movement, so you may have a Hermle movement even it has a
different name on it. Some other names made by Hermle are Seth Thomas (the
newer Seth), Tally Industries, Howard Miller, and others.
HOW TO ORDER HERMLE:
Hermle uses a 6 or 7 digit number code to designate whether it is spring, chain, or cable driven, the plate size, hammer arrangement, and the hand shaft length.
Back Plate Example:
77
Howard Miller
1161-853
94cm
The above example shows the movement number being 1161-853. Hermle
made this movement for Howard Miller and its pendulum length is 94cm from
hand shaft of the movement down to the very bottom of the pendulum bob.
To get a new replacement movement for this clock, the first set of numbers
would be matched up with the below chart. In this case 1161 would be selected
below and all the movements that start with 1161 will come up in a webpage
for you to select from.
Select the beginning part of the Hermle number below for movement details
| 130+131+132 | 140+142 | 241 | 261 | 340+341 | 350+351 |
| 451 | 461+471 | 1050+1051 | 1151 | 1161 | 1171 |
Seth Thomas clock owners:
These movements have number on the back of them that look similar to
Hermle numbers but they start with an A at the beginning. For example:
A406-010 would be a Seth
Thomas movement number. These movements are still made by Hermle and
we have them in stock, just follow the link to the Seth
Thomas page and get the Hermle replacement number.
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Mason and Sullivan clock owners
These movements have number on the back of them that ends with an X. For example:
3318X would be a Mason & Sullivan movement number. These movements are still made by Hermle
or Kieninger and
we have them in stock, just follow the link to the
Mason & Sullivan page and get the Hermle
or Kieninger replacement number.
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Jauch clock owners
Jauch movements are not made anymore. If you need a
Jauch replacement there
is still hope, we offer Hermle units as
Jauch Grandfather replacements.
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If no luck yet:
If your clock did not match up with any of the numbers above, then
your clock could be made by Kieninger
or
Urgos. These
movement manufacturers are harder to get replacement for, but we do stock
the most common models. You can check the Kieninger,
Urgos,
or Jauch pages within
this site for your movement, or Email
Us the numbers and we will see if we have it. We do stock some units
that are not listed, so again, when in doubt Email
Us the information off of the back plate of the movement and we will
check stock for you.
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Repairing a Movement
In many cases the complaint with a mechanical clock is that it stopped working after it was moved. This is usually from someone moving the clock without taking the pendulum off and this puts the clock out of beat. Out of beat is a term used in clock repair that basically means the clock is going tock-tick tock-tick instead of tick tock tick tock. It is sometimes corrected by putting a matchbook or Small piece of wood under one side of the clock case to make the tick and the tock evenly spaced. This can temporarily correct the problem and the clock runs fine. This method however is not as good as correcting the beat and having the clock run when it is truly straight and level.
This can be achieved on most clocks by slightly bending the verge one way or another. The verge is the only movement part that touches the pendulum and whacks the pendulum back and forth.
The verge is what gets bent or pushed when the clock is moved, without taking the pendulum off the clock. A verge that is pushed or bent affects the escapement of the clock; the escapement being that part of the clock that actually creates the sound tick and tock.
By bending or pushing this verge back into position, and then listening
to the sound, you can make the clock go tick tock, tick tock rather than
tock tick, tock tick which means the clock is in beat. This method is the
same for most mantle clocks, kitchen clocks, grandmother clocks, and grandfather
clocks. Just about all clocks are this way except for the 400 Day clock
or the Atmos, which are entirely different timepieces.
If the clock is now in beat, meaning the tick and the tock are evenly spaced, but then the clock stops after awhile, what now? Here are some other common ailments that are meant to be looked into before going into a cleaning procedure. Are the hands touching the dial, or each other? Bend the hands so they do not touch.
Is the pendulum touching another object during its swing? The pendulum cannot touch anything during its swing. It is commonly found in mantle clocks that the wrong pendulum bob has been put on the clock. Bobs are lost frequently like clock keys. If someone decides to replace the bob but hooks on a fatter one then the original, it may bump into the movement during its swing, even though the clock is level. Being off level is the most common reason for the pendulum to being blocked during its swing. If a clock is not level side to side and front to back, (or close) the bob may hit the case. It depends on the clock, all clocks are meant to be level and in beat from side to side, but not all clocks are meant to be perfectly level from front to back. The point is, to keep the pendulum totally free from obstructions because it uses its own weight and momentum to help keep the clock running. If it bumps anything, even slightly, then it loses some momentum and the clock will eventually stop.
If these things do not fix the clock then it would be safe to assume there is a general lack of power in the time train. It is time to give the clock a good cleaning and check over for excessive wear. If the old oil dried up, then this would cause too much friction for the clock to run with the weights power. Clean out the old oil and check for excessive wear at the pivot holes. Pivot holes are explained in another section.
To get to this point means it is time to look for a
New Movement. Unless you
find clocks as interesting as I do, then the time put into a movement is not
worth it when you can get a New
Movement, improved by the factory with bronze
bushings, so inexpensive. We here at clockworks charge more to clean a movement
than to replace with a brand new unit. Forget about the movement being
sentimental when it comes to replacing it, keep the case sentimental, not the
movement. If the movement is on our charts, then it is best to replace it.
If you do not hear any tick tock from a mechanical clock, even if the verge is moved back and forth by hand, this means there is a big obstruction in the way of the mechanics of the movement. This could mean any of the following:
1. The hands are touching something, bend the hands to freedom.
2. The chiming mechanics are out of synchronization and they are doing something to stop the movement. If the chime mechanics seems to be your clocks situation, it is recommended to read up on these parts with our E-Book.
There are only two general methods that a clock synchronizes the chime
with what hour it is, these two methods are called Rack and Snail or Count
Wheel. Both of these involve many interactions between the arms inside
the movement (The arms are in the front of the movement in a rack and snail
style movement).
3. The weight chain or cable is pinched or hung up somewhere. This can
happen during the installation of a movement to its case, see if the chain
or cable is not rubbing anything or getting pinched anywhere.
4. Star cam not aligned correctly. This is the two star like looking
gears that is on the outside of the movement plates, one slips over the
winding arbor and one is near each winding arbor. Not all clocks have these,
but for the clocks that do, it can be tricky to get these correctly aligned
if not told how.
The only way these can get misaligned is to remove
them, so if the winder arbors were NOT removed from your clock movement,
this would not be your reason for stoppage. (winding arbor = the arbor
with the square end that the key goes on) Now for the people who did have
the winding arbors removed, lets first explain what the purpose of these
stars are and then how to install them correctly so we can get some ticking
out of the clock.
These star like gears have a purpose of not allowing
the weights to go to far up or down. If you look close at them you will
see there is one tooth that is longer than the rest on the winding arbor
star gear, and one tooth entry point that is not as deep as the others
in the other star gear. These gears go fine until it gets to the point
where the tall tooth hits the short hole and this stops the clock. It does
this to do two things, not let the clock get so wound up that the weight
and chain attachments go into the movement, and it also stops the weight
from dropping to low during running, where it will hit the clock case bottom
or run out of chain so it falls to the bottom.
These can be removed completely and not reinstalled if you
choose. Just don't wind the clock weights up so high the chain or cable gets
caught up in the movement. Risk being the weights end up at the bottom of the
clock case about the ninth or tenth day and you risk the opposite end of the
chain getting stuck in the movement. The fix for the star cams is not that bad,
so you might as well put them on as your supposed to.
Just
wind up the clock to where you would like the weights to hang at full winding,
while you watch the action of these star gears. Then install the gears
so they lock at that spot while the clock is being wound up. At this spot
there should be plenty of room for the weights and its attachments to be free
from touching anything, and the clock not to top heavy that it will fall over on
someone when the door is opened. That's it, its done, the lower side will take care of itself
and stop in 8 days like it should.
This section is for the clock that chimes at the wrong time, or chimes
the wrong amount on the hour. This usually happens when the clock is laid
down on its back and then later put back upright and attempted to run again.
It is easy to fix.
Understand these two points first before proceeding: Some clocks do not like it when the minute hand is turned counter clockwise, so for the beginners, just go by the rule that all clocks should only go clockwise with the minute hand and you will be safe. In fact most clocks you can go backwards just fine, they are designed like this so it is okay, but to be safe for the sake of the few that can not go backward, go forward only. Also understand this one other point, on just about all clocks, with the exception being newer Japanese clocks and 31 day clocks, the hour hand is only a friction fit and can be turned on the hour tube to any position on the dial, backward or forward. If the hour hand becomes loose during this, just push back on its tube and it will be tight again. Now that you understand those two points, to move the minute hand forward only and the hour hand is usually only pressed on being a friction fit, we can continue setting the clock chime.
To correct a mantle or wall clock that is bonging the hour when the minute hand gets to 6 O'clock instead of 12 O'clock, just count the bongs, take off the minute hand and reinstall it on the clock pointing to 12 O'clock, then turn the hour hand to the hour you heard the clock bong and its done. To correct a clock that is bonging the wrong hour on the hour, just turn the hour hand to the correct hour the clock bonged, then reset the time correctly with the minute hand letting it bong as you go. Your done!
This section is for Westminster or other 15 Minute melodies not chiming
the hour, on the hour. If the clock is chiming prematurely only about 5
minutes or so before it is supposed to chime, on most clocks you can just
take off the minute hand and turn the bushing that is in the center of
the hand one way or another so it is exactly on the hour when it bongs
its melodies. If the clock chimes the first quarter when it is supposed
to be chiming the hour or something similar, just remove the hands and
put them to the time that it is bonging.
On many quarter chime clocks, they have a self correcting feature and you should wait until a couple of hours go by after setting up the clock, to see if it will correct itself. There is a short cut to this, simply go around once or twice with the minute hand, letting it bong as you go. If a hour or two has gone by and the clock is still singing the wrong song at the wrong time, then remove the hands as stated earlier and put them to what ever time the clock is bonging, then reset the time with the minute hand.
Cleaning without disassembly is not as effective as breaking down the movement, but it is sufficient in most cases. Not everyone is ready to break down their clock movement and put it back together. We offer a Basic Clock Cleaning Kit that is for the person who would like to do a simple clock cleaning with out having to learn an intense amount of clock repair. The goal to cleaning a clock movement is to remove old oil that has solidified and put new oil in its place. Solidified clock oil creates wear to the movements outer plates and eventually causes to much friction for the clock to run.
If you are willing to learn how your clockworks operates and would like to clean and repair the clock yourself, it is best to start out with the simple kit we have put together for this purpose. It includes The Clock Repair E-Book that guides you through each step of this process and explains the striking components so you can reassemble the movement and have it strike correctly. You need the E-Book to assemble a striking movement, don't kid yourself. I would not have written it if you didn't need it. It is too much information to put in a typical HTML format such as this page because of load time, so it is all in a downloadable zip file. This E-Book is included in the Basic Clock Cleaning Kit for only $49. and you get the clock cleaning solution, the E-Book, some brushes, a clock level and clock oil. The E-Book explains what to do with these items.
There you have your options, get the
Basic Clock Cleaning Kit and start reading up on how to clean and oil
your clock movement, or just replace it with a brand New
Movement. You can start with seeing if the movement is available,
and if it is then try the clock cleaning kit and see if you can get it to
work on your own before making the new movement purchase.
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