Replacing a movement
IntroductionIdentifying the movement
Is your movement made by Hermle?
Seth Thomas clock owners
Mason and Sullivan clock owners
Jauch clock owners
If no luck yet
SPRING DRIVEN CLOCKS
400 Day clocks - Weight
Driven clocks - Spring
Driven Clocks - Cuckoo
Clocks
Identifying the movement
Is your movement made by Hermle?
Seth Thomas clock owners
Mason and Sullivan clock owners
Jauch clock owners
If no luck yet
Repairing a movement
Putting a clock in beat
Ticks then stops
No ticking at all
Working with mainsprings
Chiming the wrong time
Setting up the quarter hour chime
Cleaning without disassembling the movement
Cleaning a disassembled movement
Replacing a Movement
Introduction:A clock movement is the part of the clock that has all the gearing in it. The
movement is often called these other names:
the "clockworks" or the clock "inners" or the "motor". They all just mean the
part of the clock that is doing the work, the two brass plates with all the
gears in it. The dial, hands, pendulum (if it has one), and weights (if it has
them) attach to the movement and are not included with a new replacement.
If your clock was made from around 1965 to the present day, there
is hope to get a new movement to replace your old one. Replacing is better than
repairing because the new movements are free from bushing wear and sometimes the
maker of the movements improve them over time. To pay someone to overhaul a
movement that is still made does not make sense because the cost would be about
the same to get a brand new unit. We often charge even more to overhaul a
movement then we sell new ones for. This is because of the time and effort
involved with the overhaul.
Top of Page
Identifying the movement:
First thing to do is to get all the information off of the back plate of the clock movement itself and write it down. Be sure to remove the weights and pendulum if the case is to be moved to get to the movement. Do not make the mistake of looking for the model number of the clock, this number is on the paperwork that comes with the clock and is not what is needed to replace the movement. As stated above, the numbers needed are on the back plate of the movement itself. 75% of the replacement movements we sell, are made by Hermle.Top of Page
HOW TO ORDER:
Hermle uses a 6 or 7 digit number code to designate whether it is spring, chain, or cable driven, the plate size, hammer arrangement, and the hand shaft length.
Back Plate Example:
77
Howard Miller
1161-853
94cm
The above example shows the movement number 1161-853. Hermle made this movement for Howard Miller and its three pendulum components total 94cm long. To get a new replacement movement for this clock, the first set of numbers would be matched up with the below chart. In this case 1161 would be selected below and all the movements that start with 1161 will come up in a webpage for you to select from.
Movements may vary from the picture
The matching of the movement number is what makes the difference, if the old movement number matches on the list, then you will get that exact same movement.
NOTE:
Hermle makes movements for various cabinet makers and marks there name onto the movement, so you may have a Hermle movement even it has a different name on it. Some other names made by Hermle are Seth Thomas (the newer Seth), Tally Industries, Howard Miller, Mason & Sullivan and others.
ALSO NOTE:
Many of the Hermle movements have been improved upon by the factory over time. Some have bronzed bushings in key wear areas to increase the life of the movement, and on the non-pendulum units the balance has been improved upon for longer life and ease of timing.
Select the beginning part of the Hermle number below for movement details
| 130+131+132 | 140+142 | 241 | 261 | 340+341 | 350+351 |
| 451 | 461+471 | 1050+1051 | 1151 | 1161 | 1171 |
These movements have number on the back of them that look similar to Hermle numbers but they start with an A at the beginning. For example: A406-010 would be a Seth Thomas movement number. These movements are still made by Hermle and we have them in stock, just follow the link to the Seth Thomas page and get the Hermle replacement number.
Top of Page
Mason and Sullivan clock owners
Top of Page
Jauch clock owners
Top of Page
If no luck yet:
If your clock did not match up with any of the numbers above, then your clock could be made by Kieninger or Urgos. These movement manufacturers are harder to get replacement for, but we do stock the most common models. You can check the Kieninger, Urgos, or Jauch pages within this site for your movement, or Email Us the numbers and we will see if we have it. We do stock some units that are not listed, so again, when in doubt Email Us the information off of the back plate of the movement and we will check stock for you.
Top of Page
Repairing a Movement
Putting a clock in beat
In many cases the complaint with a mechanical clock is that
it stopped working after it was moved. This is usually from someone moving the
clock without taking the pendulum off and this puts the clock out of beat. Out
of beat is a term used in clock repair that basically means the clock is going
tock-tick tock-tick instead of tick tock tick tock. It is sometimes corrected by
putting a matchbook or Small piece of wood under one side of the clock case to
make the tick and the tock evenly spaced. This can temporarily correct the
problem and the clock runs fine. This method however is not as good as
correcting the beat and having the clock run when it is truly straight and
level.
This can be achieved on most clocks by slightly bending the
verge one way or another. The verge is the only movement part that touches the
pendulum and whacks the pendulum back and forth.
The verge is what gets bent or pushed when the clock is
moved, without taking the pendulum off the clock. A verge that is pushed or bent
affects the escapement of the clock; the escapement being that part of the clock
that actually creates the sound tick and tock.
Front Escapement
By bending or pushing this verge back into position, and then listening to the sound, you can make the clock go tick tock, tick tock rather than tock tick, tock tick which means the clock is in beat. This method is the same for most mantle clocks, kitchen clocks, grandmother clocks, and grandfather clocks. Just about all clocks are this way except for the 400 Day clock or the Atmos, which are entirely different timepieces.
Top of Page
Clock is ticking OK but stops
If the clock is now in beat, meaning the tick and the tock are evenly spaced, but then the clock stops after awhile, what now? Here are some other common ailments that are meant to be looked into before going into a cleaning procedure. Are the hands touching the dial, or each other? Bend the hands so they do not touch.Is the pendulum touching another object during its swing? The pendulum cannot touch anything during its swing. It is commonly found in mantle clocks that the wrong pendulum bob has been put on the clock. Bobs are lost frequently like clock keys. If someone decides to replace the bob but hooks on a fatter one then the original, it may bump into the movement during its swing, even though the clock is level. Being off level is the most common reason for the pendulum to being blocked during its swing. If a clock is not level side to side and front to back, (or close) the bob may hit the case. It depends on the clock, all clocks are meant to be level and in beat from side to side, but not all clocks are meant to be perfectly level from front to back. The point is, to keep the pendulum totally free from obstructions because it uses its own weight and momentum to help keep the clock running. If it bumps anything, even slightly, then it loses some momentum and the clock will eventually stop.
If these things do not fix the clock then it would be safe to assume there is a general lack of power in the time train. It is time to give the clock a good cleaning and check over for excessive wear. If the old oil dried up, then this would cause too much friction for the clock to run with the weights power. Clean out the old oil and check for excessive wear at the pivot holes. Pivot holes are explained in another section.
To get to this point means it is time to look for a New Movement. Unless you find clocks as interesting as I do, then the time put into a movement is not worth it when you can get a New Movement, improved by the factory with bronze bushings, so inexpensive. We here at hermle charge more to clean a movement than to replace with a brand new unit. Forget about the movement being sentimental when it comes to replacing it, keep the case sentimental, not the movement. If the movement is on our charts, then it is best to replace it.
Top of Page
No tick tock sound?
If you do not hear any tick tock from a mechanical clock, even if the verge is moved back and forth by hand, this means there is a big obstruction in the way of the mechanics of the movement. This could mean any of the following:1.
The hands are touching something, bend the hands to freedom.
2.
The chiming mechanics are out of synchronization and they are doing something to stop the movement. If the chime mechanics seems to be your clocks situation, it is recommended to read up on these parts with our E-Book.NOTE:
There are only two general methods that a clock synchronizes the chime with what hour it is, these two methods are called Rack and Snail or Count Wheel. Both of these involve many interactions between the arms inside the movement (The arms are in the front of the movement in a rack and snail style movement).
Rack & Snail movement
3.
The clock is not wound up. Sounds dumb, but see if the clock is wound up.4.
The mainspring is broken. This is for spring driven clocks that will not tick tock when you move the verge check to see if the mainspring is broken by attempting to wind the clock. If the clock winds forever with no end, the mainspring is broken.Top of Page
Chiming the wrong time
This section is for the clock that chimes at the wrong time, or chimes the wrong amount on the hour. This usually happens when the clock is laid down on its back and then later put back upright and attempted to run again. It is easy to fix.NOTE:
Understand these two points first before proceeding: Some clocks do not like it when the minute hand is turned counter clockwise, so for the beginners, just go by the rule that all clocks should only go clockwise with the minute hand and you will be safe. In fact most clocks you can go backwards just fine, they are designed like this so it is okay, but to be safe for the sake of the few that can not go backward, go forward only. Also understand this one other point, on just about all clocks, with the exception being newer Japanese clocks and 31 day clocks, the hour hand is only a friction fit and can be turned on the hour tube to any position on the dial, backward or forward. If the hour hand becomes loose during this, just push back on its tube and it will be tight again. The 31 day models are a little different because the hour hand does not rotate on the hour tube. Now that you understand those two points, to move the minute hand forward only and the hour hand is usually only pressed on being a friction fit, we can continue setting the clock chime.To correct a mantle or wall clock that is bonging the hour when the minute hand gets to 6 O'clock instead of 12 O'clock, just count the bongs, take off the minute hand and reinstall it on the clock pointing to 12 O'clock, then turn the hour hand to the hour you heard the clock bong and its done. To correct a clock that is bonging the wrong hour on the hour, just turn the hour hand to the correct hour the clock bonged, then reset the time correctly with the minute hand letting it bong as you go. Your done!
Top of Page
Quarter hour chime clocks
This section is for Westminster or other 15 Minute melodies not chiming the hour, on the hour. If the clock is chiming prematurely only about 5 minutes or so before it is supposed to chime, on most clocks you can just take off the minute hand and turn the bushing that is in the center of the hand one way or another so it is exactly on the hour when it bongs its melodies. If the clock chimes the first quarter when it is supposed to be chiming the hour or something similar, just remove the hands and put them to the time that it is bonging.NOTE:
On many quarter chime clocks, they have a self correcting feature and you should wait until a couple of hours go by after setting up the clock, to see if it will correct itself. There is a short cut to this, simply go around once or twice with the minute hand, letting it bong as you go. If a hour or two has gone by and the clock is still singing the wrong song at the wrong time, then remove the hands as stated earlier and put them to what ever time the clock is bonging, then reset the time with the minute hand.Top of Page
Cleaning - not disassembling the movement
Cleaning without disassembly is not as effective as breaking down the movement, but it is sufficient in most cases. Not everyone is ready to break down their clock movement and put it back together. We offer a Basic Clock Cleaning Kit that is for the person who would like to do a simple clock cleaning with out having to learn an intense amount of clock repair. The goal to cleaning a clock movement is to remove old oil that has solidified and put new oil in its place. Solidified clock oil creates wear to the movements outer plates and eventually causes to much friction for the clock to run. Top of PageCleaning disassembled
Disassembling and reassembling a movement for a cleaning is a job that takes patience and some time to learn how the movement operates. If these are not things you wish to invest, it is best to get a New Movement from our charts that would fit your dial, pendulum, and chime rods, they are usually in stock and ready to ship.
If you are willing to learn how your clockworks operates and would like to clean and repair the clock yourself, it is best to start out with the simple kit we have put together for this purpose. It includes The Clock Repair E-Book that guides you through each step of this process and explains the striking components so you can reassemble the movement and have it strike correctly. You need the E-Book to assemble a striking movement, I would not have written it if you didn't need it. It is too much information to put in a typical HTML format such as this page because of load time, so it is all in a downloadable zip file. This E-Book is included in the Basic Clock Cleaning Kit. and you get the clock cleaning solution, the E-Book, a mainspring let down tool, some brushes, a clock level and clock oil. The E-Book explains what to do with these items.
CLOCK CLEANING KIT
Includes everything on this page
The basic items required to clean a clock movement without disassembly. Cleaning without disassembly is not as effective as breaking down the movement, but it is sufficient in most cases. Not everyone is ready to break down their clock movement and put it back together. This kit is for the person who would like to do a simple clock cleaning with out having to learn an intense amount of clock repair information or Horology. The goal to cleaning a clock movement is to remove old oil that has solidified and put new oil in its place. Solidified clock oil creates wear to the movements outer plates and eventually causes to much friction for the clock to run.
CLOCK CLEANING SOLUTION
One pint of concentrated ammoniated clock cleaning solution that can be used to clean movements by hand, or to use with a ultrasonic cleaning machine. Just mix 1 part of this solution to 6 parts of water to clean old clock oil from the movement. The E-book that is included with this kit has instructions on how to clean the clock movement in the best and safest way, so refer to it before starting the cleaning process.
CLOCK REPAIR EBOOK
This Electronic book makes it easy for anyone to fix most of the problems that prevent clocks from running properly. It is written for people who have never tried clock repair. Teaches how clocks work and how to fix things that go wrong, without sophisticated and expensive tools. With helpful illustrations and easy to read text, it will lead you, step by step, to correct problems that keep clocks from running and striking. It is the very best beginners clock repair reference. This ebook covers every clock including 400 day clocks, cuckoo clocks, spring driven clocks and weight driven clocks. The E-Book will be Emailed to you in PDF format
BRASS BRISTLE BRUSH
Behold this bewildering big beautiful brass bristle brush which brings bright bountiful beauty to big bulky brass plates. This is to be used on stubborn spots of grime, to be used with cleaning solution. Really, lets get a grip, you will get a brush that will clean your movement the best way possible.
VISION VISOR
This magnifier can be worn over glasses. This fits over the head and will be the most convenient magnification for inspecting important components of the clock movement and parts. This quality tool is made here in USA and is a must for this type of work. This flips up over the head when there is an interruption in your work and has 2 1/2 magnification power.
OILER WITH OIL
The oiler is full of oil and are the size of a fat pen. A Small amount of oil gets applied to anything that has friction after the old oil is cleaned off. This is enough clock oil to do many clock movements. This is enough oil to do about 15 clocks!
CLOCK GEAR / HAND PULLER
This is used to pull gears or hands off clocks in a straight and safe fashion. With 400 day clocks in particular, the hour hand sometimes is difficult to get off. Doing it by hand could increase the hour hand holes diameter and the hand will not fit back on correctly because it would be touching the dial. Using this simple tool prevents this from happening. Included
CLOCK LEVEL
The level is needed to be sure the clock stays in beat from one place to another. Learn to set the clock in beat by the directions in the E-book, making sure the clock is level when it is being done. Then keep a level with the clock and where ever the clock goes, as long as its level, it will be in beat. By being in beat, it means to have an even tick-tock-tick-tock rather than ticktock---ticktock---ticktock. Often many repairs ONLY need to be set in beat to work - however a cleaning is usually suggested anyhow.
NOTE: Spring driven clocks would need the below tool
LET DOWN TOOL
This is a wooden tool that will go over your key in a spring driven clock and allow you to release the power of the mainsprings. If the power of the mainsprings are not released in a spring driven clock during the cleaning process then they risk breaking and damaging the clock movement. It is also a tool that is needed to disassemble any spring driven movement.
Includes everything on this page
Clock Repair E-Book Only
The tremendous success of this E-Book is from the simplicity in the answers and the ease of use. This will make it very easy for the clock owner to solve simple problems that may arise when there is an issue with the clock. The topics you see below are the actual topics that are presented on the cover page of the E-Book. Please review them and see if this E-Book will help you. You will find this very helpful in solving many different clock repair issues and questions on cleaning and oiling a movement. This file will be Emailed to you shortly after you order. Please select NO SHIPPING option upon check out as there will be nothing physically shipped.
Categories are as listed below:
Only $20
The E-Book downloading instructions will be emailed to you after the order is placed.Under the shipping options, just select "No shipping fee - download only" so there is not a shipping charge.
Weight Driven
- Introduction
- Putting it "In Beat"
- Ticks ok but stops
- No tick tock sound
- Quarter chime is off
- Cleaning - Assembled
- Cleaning - Disassembled
- Reassembling the works
- Repair methods
- Replacing with a new movement
Spring Driven
- Introduction
- Putting it "In Beat"
- Ticks ok but stops
- No tick tock sound
- Working with mainsprings
- Chiming the wrong time
- Setting quarter chimes
- Cleaning - Assembled
- Cleaning - Disassembled
- Reassembling the works
- Repair methods
- Replacing with a new movement
Anniversary Clocks
- Introduction
- Setting up the clock
- Changing Suspensions
- Putting it "In Beat"
- Cleaning the Movement
- Reassembling the works
Cuckoo Clocks
- Introduction
- Parts Check
- Checking for Wear
- Replacing Bellows
- Replacing Bellow Cloth
- Putting it "In Beat"
- Not Cuckooing at the Right Time
- Cuckooing the Wrong Amount
- Movement Removal and Installation
- New Cuckoo Set-Up
- Changing the Hands
- Cleaning the Movement
Want to get in touch?
Send us an E-Mail