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FINDING A REPLACEMENT
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Introduction: If your clock was made from around 1965 to the present day, there is hope to get a new movement to replace your old one. Replacing is better than repairing because the new movements are free from bushing wear and sometimes the maker of the movements improve them over time. To pay someone to overhaul a movement that is still made does not make sense because the cost would be about the same to get a brand new unit. We often charge even more to overhaul a movement then we sell new ones for. This is because of the time and effort involved with the overhaul.
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Identifying the movement: First thing to do is to get all the information off of the back plate of the clock movement itself and write it down. Be sure to remove the weights and pendulum if the case is to be moved to get to the movement. Do not make the mistake of looking for the model number of the clock, this number is on the paperwork that comes with the clock and is not what is needed to replace the movement. As stated above, the numbers needed are on the back plate of the movement itself. Then look at the below chart and see what numbers look the most similar in the EXAMPLES column and click the link provided. An interesting thing to know that may help you is that 70% of the movements we sell, end up being made by Hermle. So this is already the most likely manufacturer of your clock movement before even starting. |
| EXAMPLES | DESCRIPTION | WHO MADE IT | OTHER NAMES USED | AVAILABILITY |
1161-053 114cm Or 340-020 Or 451-050 94CM And similar |
Basically if there is a dash in the movement number, and its all numbers in the beginning with no letters like "A", and the clock was made in Germany, its a Hermle unit for sure. |
Any case maker who ordered enough from the factory could get there name put on the movement.
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Hermle is the biggest movement producers in the world today. Not only do they have the most movements being made, but they also have the best part availability when you need a component such as a pendulum or a dial, or a complete clock kit. Hermle units generally last 19 to as much as 30 years. We usually get calls to replace units that were built in the early 80's or late 70's. If you look at the back plate of the movement you will see a couple numbers above all the other numbers. You will see such as a 77 or an 83 or so on. This is the date the movement was built. Replacing these units rather than getting them cleaned and oiled is usually the smart way to go as it is factory improved, brand new, factory lubricated, easy to install, and it will cost less than a cleaning. Keep in mind however that there are different grades of the same movement number, some are cheaper and contain plastic parts. The Hermle units that we offer here at hermle are the best grade available with no plastic components for a very reasonable price.
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| EXAMPLES | DESCRIPTION | WHO MADE IT | OTHER NAMES USED | AVAILABILITY |
32/1 Or 03096 Or 32319 And similar |
Five numbers usually or a slash to represent any 0's in the five number sequence. In other words, 32/1 is the same thing as saying 32001. There are always five numbers, but sometimes the / takes the place of any 0's. If there are 0's in the front they are not counted. This means 3/96 is the same as 03096. This sounds a bit confusing but there is a simple way to identify if your movement is Urgos: If it is five numbers in a row, or less than five numbers with a / in it, and its made in Germany, it is an Urgos movement for sure. |
Howard Miller Mason & Sullivan Seth Thomas UW These markings among other names could be on the back plate of the movement. Most often what is seen is the UW before the movement number, this only means it is made by Urgos and nothing more. |
We offer many of these movements for replacing old worn out units. The Urgos factory was bought out and they are only producing three train movements at this time. You can no longer get original Urgos clock components such as moon dials and Lyre pendulums for these units, unless a company like ours has old stock left over that is still new. If you need a part such as this call for availability as it is getting slim. Any movement that starts off with a 32 such as 32/1 or 32319 is no problem, we have them in stock. Any movement that starts off with double 6's, like 66020, is no problem, we usually have these also. Now if the movement starts with a 3 or a 0, such as 03083 or 3/20, you will have to call and check availability on this one. You may end up leaving a deposit for it and waiting a couple of months for the unit as they sell out as soon as there in stock. If the movement starts with a 22, forget it, you will not find it. All you can do is send it to us for repair or gut the case and start over with a Hermle kit, either way we can help. If the movement starts with a 06 or a 6/ then this is not made anymore. Such as 6/56, this is unavailable and you would have two options open to you. One is to get the movement repaired. Or we can offer you a brand new movement that is "close" to the original but made by Hermle instead. Some changes may have to be made to the dial or chime block, please call and ask for James about this "Hermle retrofit" as its called 888-200-7445.
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| EXAMPLES | DESCRIPTION | WHO MADE IT | OTHER NAMES USED | AVAILABILITY |
84R116CM Or 79K93CM Or 81PS43CM And similar
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The first couple of numbers are the date, so 84R116CM would be made in 1984. Then comes the series code, or at least one or two letters of it. In this case the letter is R, this would stand for RK series clock movement. Then there is the CM number, this is the length of the three components of the pendulum. Kieninger could be considered tricky in determining the proper replacement if your not used to it. Best thing to do if you have one of these movements is to go to this link and follow the directions you see on that page. |
Howard Miller Ridgeway Mason & Sullivan Seth Thomas Kieninger often puts there name on the back of the movement, but sometimes uses the above names, and sometimes there is no name at all. When there is no name at all, the only way to identify this would to see if the numbers somewhat matches with the examples to the left. |
Very good availability on the movements at least. The only thing discontinued would be the 5 tubular bell movements as well as a couple others. Every other movement is usually in stock. If you happen to be the owner of the 5 tube just mentioned, repair would be the way to go. That is a very good quality movement and is worth working on. As for the rest of the components in a Kieninger clock kit, some items are very hard to replace or get and others are easy. Basically the smaller the clock, the harder to get components for it. Example being, if you have a grandfather clock made by Kieninger and you wanted to replace the dial, this is easy. But then if you had a mantle clock, spring driven, and you wanted to change the dial, this would not be available and the dial would have to be custom punched for the winding arbors.
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| EXAMPLES | DESCRIPTION | WHO MADE IT | OTHER NAMES USED | AVAILABILITY |
77 Or J96 Or PL110 And similar |
These numbers mean they are made by Jauch providing the movement was made in Germany. Jauch used some CM lengths that are not like the other clock companies. Such as PL110 means only that the three components of the pendulum assembly comes out to be 110 centimeters. PL = pendulum length 110 = CM.. Any larger German movement that says PL on it, is a Jauch. Any movement that only has a stamp of 77 or 78 or something similar on the back plate, and very little more, is most likely a Jauch. |
JAUCH |
Howard Miller Ridgeway Mason & Sullivan Seth Thomas On these units, most often there is no indication of a manufacturers name on the movement at all. But there are times it will say Jauch or one of the names above.
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No availability on these movements at all. You cannot just buy a new Jauch movement. There are some options available however to still get the clock up and ticking. First, you could send the movement in to get it repaired. Second option is to gut the case and give us a call so we can get you a complete Hermle clock kit with a dial, pendulum, chimeblock and everything for your case. Or lastly, in some instances we can provide a Hermle retrofit as its called. This means you would use one of our kits we put together to modify your existing components in the clock to work with a Hermle unit instead of Jauch, meaning there is less to purchase. This is the most popular thing to do, if its available for your particular Jauch movement.
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| EXAMPLES | DESCRIPTION | WHO MADE IT | OTHER NAMES USED | AVAILABILITY |
A401-000 Or A208-015 Or A415-001
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Starting with an "A", set of three numbers and then a "-", then another set of three numbers. This would be a Seth Thomas movement. Before around 1965 the number sequence would vary but there will always be an "A" before the number. If the number starts with an "A" then its Seth Thomas. |
ALL FOUR |
Name is always Seth Thomas on the clock movement, however if the clock was made after around 1965 then the movement really made by some other company, but with the ST name on the movement. |
The name Seth Thomas is often confused. At first there was a Seth Thomas factory in Thomaston, CT way back in the late 1800's and in the early to mid 1900's. This name Seth Thomas was then bought out after the company closed and it started appearing on all the major clock manufacturers clock movements and clock cases. This may sound like too much information but it is often confused as to the old Seth and the new Seth. When someone says that they have a Seth Thomas clock, this could mean anything as this could be a quartz, electric, or mechanical movement. Then even if its a mechanical movement, it could be the original ST or the after the name sold ST that was used by all the other four modern manufacturers of Germany that is on this list. When the clock says ST and made in USA, then this is the original antique Seth Thomas from CT. These movements are not available and neither are any internal parts for the movements. There are a couple options on getting the clock up and ticking, one of which is to replace the movement with a cheap knock off from Korea. This is of course not recommended and would make the clock worthless. The other option is to send the movement in for a cleaning oiling and rebushing if needed. This would make the movement running for a long time and maintain the value of the timepiece. When the clock says Seth Thomas and is made in Germany, this movement would usually be available from us. You would click the Seth Thomas link and find the numbers that are on your movement, and see what number it really is. Just follow the directions when you get to the link. |
| EXAMPLES | DESCRIPTION | WHO MADE IT | OTHER NAMES USED | AVAILABILITY |
3231X Or 3314X Or 3331X
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Always starting with a 3 and always ending in a X would be Mason and Sullivan. |
ALL FOUR |
They used only there name to promote it as much as possible. |
The Mason and Sullivan company sold an enormous amount of clocks out of Osterville, MA. They since have closed there doors and are no longer around. The movements and components they have used were not there own however. They built so many cases and bought so many movements from the manufacturers that they were able to get there name stamped on the back plate of the movement as if they made it themselves. In reality the movements were usually made by Hermle, or the other three
names on this list. Best to write down your clock movements number, then go to
the Mason and Sullivan list
and convert your number to the true manufactures number. The Availability of
these movements are very good and usually in our inventory. |
HOW TO ORDER: Hermle uses a 6 or 7 digit number code to designate whether it is spring, chain, or cable driven, the plate size, hammer arrangement, and the hand shaft length. Back Plate Example: The above example shows the movement number 1161-853. Hermle made this movement for Howard Miller and its three pendulum components total 94cm long. To get a new replacement movement for this clock, the first set of numbers would be matched up with the below chart. In this case 1161 would be selected below and all the movements that start with 1161 will come up in a webpage for you to select from. |
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Hermle makes movements for various cabinet makers and marks
there name onto the movement, so you may have a Hermle movement even it has a
different name on it. Some other names made by Hermle are Seth Thomas (the newer
Seth), Tally Industries, Howard Miller, Mason & Sullivan and others. Many of the Hermle movements have been improved upon by the factory over time. Some have bronzed bushings in key wear areas to increase the life of the movement, and on the non-pendulum units the balance has been improved upon for longer life and ease of timing. |
Select the beginning part of the Hermle number below for movement details
Cant find your movement on the charts? We most likely still have it - Give us a call
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Clockworks.com |
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