Keys

German Seth-Thomas Clock Movement Info

Seth Thomas Clock MovementST IdentificationHow to Order STWhy Order STMovement IssuesHistorical Timeline

Please view these information tabs for assistance, there is important information needed for a new Seth Thomas Clock Movement.

Seth Thomas movement identification

Seth Thomas movement identification is a fairly easy process. ST clock movements have specific markings that identify them. Their fame began in the Antique days. They were known for making their own movements and clock cases. Of course, the craftsmanship was astounding. After the war era, they did not make anymore clock movements. Instead the use of Hermle clock movements began.

In the end

For the most part, the name Seth Thomas did not stay with one company very long after the war. The outcome of these takeovers are three types of Seth Thomas clock movements. The Antique Seth Thomas were in production during and long before WW2. The use of German units such as Hermle, as well as movements that operate by battery, also began post WW2 by Seth Thomas. Hermle clock movements are German made and of the highest quality. Clockworks offers these types of movements.

Is the clock an antique Seth Thomas?

There are a few ways to tell if the ST is an antique. The easiest way is if there are no pits in the movement plates. Please see the picture below. Notice the pattern on the outer plates. The antique Seth Thomas clock movements never had this design pattern on them. It will have ST with a circle around it for a logo. Additionally, the movement will say made in USA. They may also have a few numbers on it such as 89 or 124. This will tell you it is an antique. It also means that it is not available new, and made before 1950. A repair would be your only option.

Seth Thomas Movement Identification

Modern Seth Thomas Movement Identification

The picture displays the small bumps, or pits, in the movement plates. This design on the Seth Thomas movement indicates some interesting things. In short, the date of the movement is between 1950 and 1979, and it was made in Germany. This also means you have a good chance of getting a new movement from Clockworks. To get a new movement means the cost is a fraction of the price of an overhaul. It will also ship out right away. The clock will be running right away instead of months later. It is not possible to restore a clock movement so it is better than new. To order a new movement, match up the numbers on the Seth Thomas page. If you have questions please email us.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire

German Seth-Thomas Clock Movements

German Seth-Thomas clock movements are still available. Finding a new movement starts with the identification numbers off the back plate. After 1950, ST did not make movements. So, the old unit now has a conversion numbers in order to get a new movement. Currently, Hermle of Germany makes these with the ST number system and ST name. So it is really a Hermle in disguise and put on the market by Seth Thomas. The Seth Thomas name was put on the Hermle movements and then married to the clock case.

How to order

The first step to replace a Seth Thomas clock movement is to get the numbers off of the back plate. If it starts with the letter A, such as A401-003 then it is a ST number and has to get the new conversion number. Find the ST number in the list and write down the conversion number. Then click on that version number. This will take you directly to where the movement is on the Clockworks website. Reference this number when selecting the options for the movement.

Do not completely trust the chart

The above instructions work as a guide only for Seth-Thomas Clock Movements. Unfortunately, this chart is often wrong. It is meant as basic guide only. This will help determine the series of the movement. It is best to double check the rest of the attributes for accuracy. Things such as CM lengths and hand shaft lengths, for example. Before ordering, email the Seth Thomas number to us. We will verify the information so ensure the correct conversion.

Conclusion for German Seth-Thomas Clock Movements

A new movement is better than even the best repair. These are 25 year movements and Seth Thomas was gone over 40 years ago.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire

New Seth Thomas Movement

A new Seth Thomas Movement can ship the same day you order it. So the turnover time to get your clock running is minimal. The new movement (if available) will cost less than a cleaning and overhaul of the old unit. It will also last much longer. This means your clock will be up and running within a week instead of months. Of course, we are always here to help with the installation. If you have a question, send us an email. We are happy to help.

The new movement

When deciding to purchase a new Seth Thomas movement, remember that Clockworks offers the same movement you currently have. The only difference is that it will be brand new. It is exactly the same and not a knock off replacement. You will receive a new German movement and not one made by someone else. Usually other companies will make a similar product and sell them for less money, however there will be plastic parts in it. The units we sell are completely brass.

The modern Seth Thomas clocks are made by manufacturers other than Seth Thomas. Their name may be on it as the designer of the clock and the case, but it will not be a Seth Thomas movement that runs the clock. This is true for all clocks made after 1950. It also causes some confusion when replacing the movement. Often enough, a customer will insist that they are replacing a Seth Thomas movement when in fact it is a Hermle.

Replace versus Repair

A new Seth Thomas movement is obviously a better choice. It does not make sense to chase the old movement. Once one thing breaks, another problem will occur. This situation is inevitable. A new movement is more cost effective and has a triple life expectancy. These facts alone should make a new Seth Thomas movement an easy choice. In contrast, a Seth Thomas clock made prior to the end of WW2 is a different story. Those are no longer made. However, send us the movement and we will provide you the best restoration.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire

The Broken German Seth-Thomas Clock

Repair a broken German Seth-Thomas Clock by replacing the movement with a new one. Seth-Thomas went out of the clock business about 40 years ago. So having a movement with the Seth Thomas name on it means the lifespan is over for that movement. The average life expectancy of a clock movement is 25 years. The Seth Thomas from WW2 and prior had American movements. However, after 1950 they had German made units. So they did not make any movements themselves after the 1950's. Instead Hermle made them. The Hermle clock company is flourishing so the movements are still available to replace a broken German Seth-Thomas clock.

What happened to the old one

After 25 years, the oil becomes a solid instead of a liquid. This will cause too much resistance in the movement for it to run. Eventually the movement will stop working. Just having the name Seth Thomas on the clock means it is about 40 years old at best. There are two choices to save the broken German Seth-Thomas clock. Restore the old movement or get a new one if possible. Obviously, a new movement is the best choice. A new unit costs a fraction of the price of a movement restoration. It usually ships the same day instead of waiting up to 6 months for a restoration. A new one will last another 30 yrs without much complaint.

After 25-30 years this happens

Why does age affect the operation of the movement? A broken German Seth-Thomas clock has oil that solidifies with age. What was once a lubrication to the Seth Thomas movement has now become a sticky black abrasive. This creates both resistance and wear on the movement and it ends up broken. This wear and resistance will ultimately stop the clock from functioning properly. The pivots that ride in the holes of the brass plates will not be able to spin freely as they did in the past. The holes have become oblong instead of round, which causes the pivots to pinch inside of the hole. The pivot then cannot spin and therefore the oil is an abrasive rather than a lubricant.

Conclusion for the Broken German Seth-Thomas Clock

So now you see the choice is pretty clear. The new movement, when available from Clockworks, is the best choice by far for fixing a broken German Seth-Thomas Clock. The movement will be the same movement for a fraction of the price, brand new, oiled, tested, and last decades longer than even the best restoration.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire

Seth Thomas Historical Timeline

Overall, the Seth Thomas Historical Timeline is a great way to familiarize yourself with background information that may pertain to your clock. The Seth Thomas factory made countless clock movements during and prior to the second world war. Of course, the high quality standard made the company a great success. Furthermore, after the war they did not make any movements. They subsequently chose to use alternate makers. Alternate movement makers were chosen to produce the movements for their Seth Thomas clock cases.

Start of German made movements

So, the clocks were Seth Thomas however, the clock movements were now made in Germany. They were now German instead of American. For the most part, the German movements that they chose to use for Seth Thomas were made by Hermle clock company or Kieninger. Of course, Seth Thomas would match the units to the clock case and sell them under their company name.

A long History

All in all, Seth Thomas had a long history of clock making. Although there was an exchange in the name from one company to another throughout the years, they are now extinct. The timeline shown below will take you for a walk through the changes Seth Thomas went through.

Seth Thomas Historical Timeline

1785

Seth Thomas starts in Wolcott, Ct by James Thomas.

1807

James Thomas begins working with Eli Terry as a clockmaker apprentice near Waterbury, CT. Because Terry got an order to make 4,000 clocks.

1813

James Thomas opens his own Seth Thomas shop in Plymouth Hollow, CT.

1842

Seth Thomas starts using brass clock movements which were put in Ogee Clocks.

1853

Seth Thomas Clock Company becomes a corporation.

1859

Death of Seth Thomas, now run by his three sons, Seth Thomas, Jr., Aaron, and Edward.

1866

The town of Plymouth Hollow changes its name to Thomaston in honor of Seth Thomas

1884

Establishment of Seth Thomas Watch Company

1931

Seth Thomas Clock Company becomes part of The General Time Instrument Company by the great grandson of Seth Thomas

1932

The Thomas family no longer controls The General Time Instrument Company

1949

Seth Thomas Clock Company becomes part of General Time. This is the start of all those electro-mechanical clocks with the wooden cases.

1968

General Time becomes part of Talley Industries. This is when they were using German movements made by Hermle, Kieninger, Urgos or sometimes Jauch.

2001

General Time ends and Colibri buys the assets of Seth Thomas

2009

Colibri Group discontinues all business with clocks

As a result of these facts, this is the end of Seth Thomas Historical Timeline.

End of Seth Thomas

Given these points, the Seth Thomas Clock Company had a long run and a wild ride. Hopefully this history was an interesting account of where, or how, your clock came into existence. Of course, The company name may now be found on silly things like lighters and some quartz clock dials. However, what we offer and sell are the Seth Thomas units made in Germany. These are the units General Time and Tally Industries sold under the Seth Thomas name but put Hermle clock movements in the clock cases. These German units are high quality and last 25-30 years without much complaint.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire

QU30 Chiming Seiko Instructions

QU30 Chiming Seiko Instructions

The following are the QU30 Chiming Seiko Instructions.

Please Note: The movement will not chime the quarter hours while the time is being set. Only the hourly chimes will operate during the setup process. The quarters will start when the clock is set and about 90 minutes after being left alone to chime on its own.

Seiko clock movement instructions
  1. Push the HOUR hand onto the post at the 6 o'clock position.
  2. Place the MINUTE hand at 12 o'clock and tighten the minute hand nut.
  3. Press the SECOND hand onto the shaft at the 12 o'clock position (if you are using one). Your hands are now set to the CHIME of the motor.
  4. Using the hand setter, on the upper right side of the movement, turn the hands clockwise to the correct time of day.
  5. Insert one C-cell battery. The motor will now run and set for the correct chime and time of day.
  6. To listen to 24 hour chime and strike, place the AM / PM switch in the LEFT position. For night-time silence (between hours of 11:00PM and 5:45AM) place the AM / PM switch in the RIGHT position.
  7. The song switch on the left side of the movement is to select Westminster or Whittington. The display shows a 1 or 2. Slide the switch to whatever song you want the clock to chime.
  8. This concludes the QU30 Chiming Seiko Instructions. Now the clock is properly set up.

Making it chime on time

Troubleshooting the QU30 Chiming Seiko Instructions

First, find out if the clock chime is correct. It does not matter what time it is. The hands need to point to the time the clock thinks it is. Which means where the clock is chiming.

So when the clocks chimes, make note of how many times it does so. Then remove the hands. Put them back on to point to the number of chimes it rang. In other words, 3 chimes means put the hands on the clock to point to 3 o'clock. The final step it to set it to the correct time by either the rotating the setting knob or rotating the minute hand slowly in a clockwise manner. Always rotate it clockwise.

Additionally, if the clock minute hand will not point exactly to the 12, do this. Find the circle setting knob on the back of the movement and hold this still with your fingers so it will not move. At the same time, point the minute hand to the 12 where it needs to be. Let go of both and it will be correct from then on forth.

Chiming Quartz Movement Info

Chiming Quartz MovementsAssembly DiagramRemovalInstallationWhat To MeasureDial Thickness To Post SizeDefinitions

Please view these information tabs to learn more Info about Chiming Quartz Movements

Quartz Clock Movement Removal

This note explains quartz clock movement removal from the case. The following does not apply to quartz units made in Germany or inserts. To remove the movement you will need access to the back of the clock and the front side of the clock dial. There are so many case designs it would not be possible to cover all of the different variations. The clock case went to together so it comes apart. It may take a bit of probing but there is always a way to take it apart.

Getting access to the dial area

There are many case designs and styles and there is no way for us to know how your specific clock went together. Most of the time the removal process is very easy but of course there are some instances where it is not user friendly. Thus, it is on the users end to be able to access the dial and movement area to continue with the swap out.

Clock hand removal

Quartz clock movement removal always needs the hands to come off first. There are two reasons for this. First, you need to have access to the hardware that mounts the movement. Second, there is no way to take get the movement out of the clock if the hands are still on it. They certainly will not fit through the hole in the clock.

Quartz Clock Movement Removal - Minute hand

Quartz clock movements have two styles of minute hands. One style has a nut that holds it in place and the other style is a friction fit. The friction fit has no nut and just pulls off with a twist and pull. The second style has a minute hand nut to secure the minute hand. Removal is done by turning the nut to the left with needle nose pliers. Once the nut is loose it only requires fingers to unscrew it.

Hour hand

In a Quartz clock Movement removal task, the hour hand is only a friction fit. Thus, the hour tube tapers down on the movement, meaning it is wider on the low end of it. This makes the hour hand friction fit only. Just twist the hand and pull it toward you until it comes off.

Second hand

The second hand pulls straight up and off if the clock has one.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire
Clock Dial

Quartz clock movement installation

In essence, this is a quick step by step practical guide for the quartz clock movement installation. The first step is to get the old unit out of the way. Of course, this is done by removing the hands from the clock and then the hex nut that is located on the post where the hands used to be. In essence, the movement will fall out the back of the clock dial. On occasion, the movement will have glue holding it in place. If this is the case, very gently pry the movement off of the back of the clock with a screwdriver. Now it is out of the way and installation of the new quartz clock movement bought from Clockworks can be done. Likewise, Quartz clock movement installation is usually very easy. Altogether, these are the assembly instructions for the time only quartz clock movement into the clock case.

Sequential order of installation

  • 1. Place the steel hanger over the threaded post (optional)
  • 2. Place black rubber washer on the post next (optional)
  • 3. Start mounting the movement by putting the post through the dial
  • 4. Slide the brass washer onto the post of the movement that is sticking out of the clock dial
  • 5. Put hex nut on post and tighten to hold movement to the back of the clock face.
  • 6. Push hour hand on the post by friction fit
  • 7. Put the minute hand on the post
  • 8. If using a second hand install now by friction. The post just sticks into the end and use the doughnut.
  • 9. If not using a second hand just secure the minute hand with the pretty cap nut.

The movement is now installed

Naturally, this applies to all battery operated clock movements available on Clockworks. For example, chiming quartz, time only, and high torque. Of course, the exception to this would be clock inserts.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire

Quartz clock movement measuring

Please select the post length when ordering a new quartz clock movement. Of course, when doing quartz clock movement measuring, remember the post will need to be able to go through the thickness of the dial face. Also remember that the dial may or may not have a wood backing to it. With a wood backing the clock dial or face would be thicker and thus would need a longer post. Clockworks offers multiple post lengths on quartz movements for this reason. In other words, the post has to be long enough to go through whatever thickness we are calling the dial.

How to measure quartz clock movement post

What to measure

Clockworks offers multiple post lengths for quartz movements. When completing a quartz clock movement measurement, you will need to measure the post on the old movement. This is so it can match up with the new quartz movement. To clarify, the post is the part that goes through the dial (face) and mounts from the front and what is in a quartz clock movement measurement. This applies to all Clockworks quartz movements, including chiming quartz, and time only quartz movements.

Length depends on dial thickness

When working on a quartz clock movement measurement the post has to be long enough to go through whatever thickness that the clock face/dial, might be. The length of the threaded portion of the post/shaft, is the measurement needed. The threaded shaft needs to go through the dial/face of the clock from the back to the front. It needs to be long enough for a small hex nut to screw onto it. It can’t be too long or the hands will not move correctly. Clockworks has a variety of lengths to accommodate a variety of different materials since some are wood and some are metal and some are plastic, etc.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire

Measuring quartz post lengths

When replacing a quartz movement it means measuring quartz post lengths. Subsequently, the post will stick out through the front of the clock dial. Of course, there needs to be enough threads sticking out for the hex nut to be put on. Hence, the movement will be held in place to the back of the dial (clock face) and will not move.

Use the chart if building a clock

With that being said, find the correct post length by using the chart below. Remember, the threads on the post need to be at least 2/16 longer than the thickness of the clock dial. To clarify, a clock dial is the face (also called the thing with the numbers on it). As always, email us if there is any question.

Measuring quartz post lengths if replacing a clock

If replacing a movement and not building a clock, it is easier to measure the quartz post length of the old movement. Before measuring, remove the movement first by taking off the hands and then the hex nut. Next, measure the length of the post that has the threads that the hex nut was on. In short, only measure the fat part of the hand shaft that we call a post. Also, never include the part that the hands go on when you measure for the quartz post length. All in all, the new unit needs to be the same post length as the old movement. Overall, this applies to all quartz clock movements available on Clockworks such as chiming quartz and time only quartz.

Dial Thickness

  • 1/16 inch thick
  • 3/16 inch thick
  • 5/16 inch thick
  • 9/16 inch thick
  • 3/4 inch thick

Size Post Needed

  • 3/16"
  • 5/16"
  • 7/16"
  • 11/16"
  • 15/16"
How to measure quartz clock movement post
The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire

High-Torque Quartz Movement Info

High Torque Quartz Clock MovementsAssembly DiagramRemovalInstallationWhat To MeasureDial Thickness To Post SizeDefinitions

Please view these information tabs to learn more about High Torque Quartz Clock Movements

Quartz Clock Movement Removal

This note explains quartz clock movement removal from the case. The following does not apply to quartz units made in Germany or inserts. To remove the movement you will need access to the back of the clock and the front side of the clock dial. There are so many case designs it would not be possible to cover all of the different variations. The clock case went to together so it comes apart. It may take a bit of probing but there is always a way to take it apart.

Getting access to the dial area

There are many case designs and styles and there is no way for us to know how your specific clock went together. Most of the time the removal process is very easy but of course there are some instances where it is not user friendly. Thus, it is on the users end to be able to access the dial and movement area to continue with the swap out.

Clock hand removal

Quartz clock movement removal always needs the hands to come off first. There are two reasons for this. First, you need to have access to the hardware that mounts the movement. Second, there is no way to take get the movement out of the clock if the hands are still on it. They certainly will not fit through the hole in the clock.

Quartz Clock Movement Removal - Minute hand

Quartz clock movements have two styles of minute hands. One style has a nut that holds it in place and the other style is a friction fit. The friction fit has no nut and just pulls off with a twist and pull. The second style has a minute hand nut to secure the minute hand. Removal is done by turning the nut to the left with needle nose pliers. Once the nut is loose it only requires fingers to unscrew it.

Hour hand

In a Quartz clock Movement removal task, the hour hand is only a friction fit. Thus, the hour tube tapers down on the movement, meaning it is wider on the low end of it. This makes the hour hand friction fit only. Just twist the hand and pull it toward you until it comes off.

Second hand

The second hand pulls straight up and off if the clock has one.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire
Clock Dial

Quartz clock movement installation

In essence, this is a quick step by step practical guide for the quartz clock movement installation. The first step is to get the old unit out of the way. Of course, this is done by removing the hands from the clock and then the hex nut that is located on the post where the hands used to be. In essence, the movement will fall out the back of the clock dial. On occasion, the movement will have glue holding it in place. If this is the case, very gently pry the movement off of the back of the clock with a screwdriver. Now it is out of the way and installation of the new quartz clock movement bought from Clockworks can be done. Likewise, Quartz clock movement installation is usually very easy. Altogether, these are the assembly instructions for the time only quartz clock movement into the clock case.

Sequential order of installation

  • 1. Place the steel hanger over the threaded post (optional)
  • 2. Place black rubber washer on the post next (optional)
  • 3. Start mounting the movement by putting the post through the dial
  • 4. Slide the brass washer onto the post of the movement that is sticking out of the clock dial
  • 5. Put hex nut on post and tighten to hold movement to the back of the clock face.
  • 6. Push hour hand on the post by friction fit
  • 7. Put the minute hand on the post
  • 8. If using a second hand install now by friction. The post just sticks into the end and use the doughnut.
  • 9. If not using a second hand just secure the minute hand with the pretty cap nut.

The movement is now installed

Naturally, this applies to all battery operated clock movements available on Clockworks. For example, chiming quartz, time only, and high torque. Of course, the exception to this would be clock inserts.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire

Quartz clock movement measuring

Please select the post length when ordering a new quartz clock movement. Of course, when doing quartz clock movement measuring, remember the post will need to be able to go through the thickness of the dial face. Also remember that the dial may or may not have a wood backing to it. With a wood backing the clock dial or face would be thicker and thus would need a longer post. Clockworks offers multiple post lengths on quartz movements for this reason. In other words, the post has to be long enough to go through whatever thickness we are calling the dial.

How to measure quartz clock movement post

What to measure

Clockworks offers multiple post lengths for quartz movements. When completing a quartz clock movement measurement, you will need to measure the post on the old movement. This is so it can match up with the new quartz movement. To clarify, the post is the part that goes through the dial (face) and mounts from the front and what is in a quartz clock movement measurement. This applies to all Clockworks quartz movements, including chiming quartz, and time only quartz movements.

Length depends on dial thickness

When working on a quartz clock movement measurement the post has to be long enough to go through whatever thickness that the clock face/dial, might be. The length of the threaded portion of the post/shaft, is the measurement needed. The threaded shaft needs to go through the dial/face of the clock from the back to the front. It needs to be long enough for a small hex nut to screw onto it. It can’t be too long or the hands will not move correctly. Clockworks has a variety of lengths to accommodate a variety of different materials since some are wood and some are metal and some are plastic, etc.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire

Measuring quartz post lengths

When replacing a quartz movement it means measuring quartz post lengths. Subsequently, the post will stick out through the front of the clock dial. Of course, there needs to be enough threads sticking out for the hex nut to be put on. Hence, the movement will be held in place to the back of the dial (clock face) and will not move.

Use the chart if building a clock

With that being said, find the correct post length by using the chart below. Remember, the threads on the post need to be at least 2/16 longer than the thickness of the clock dial. To clarify, a clock dial is the face (also called the thing with the numbers on it). As always, email us if there is any question.

Measuring quartz post lengths if replacing a clock

If replacing a movement and not building a clock, it is easier to measure the quartz post length of the old movement. Before measuring, remove the movement first by taking off the hands and then the hex nut. Next, measure the length of the post that has the threads that the hex nut was on. In short, only measure the fat part of the hand shaft that we call a post. Also, never include the part that the hands go on when you measure for the quartz post length. All in all, the new unit needs to be the same post length as the old movement. Overall, this applies to all quartz clock movements available on Clockworks such as chiming quartz and time only quartz.

Dial Thickness

  • 1/16 inch thick
  • 3/16 inch thick
  • 5/16 inch thick
  • 9/16 inch thick
  • 3/4 inch thick

Size Post Needed

  • 3/16"
  • 5/16"
  • 7/16"
  • 11/16"
  • 15/16"
How to measure quartz clock movement post
The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire

Order Changes/Cancellation

Order Changes/Cancellation

This company processes all incoming orders immediately upon receipt. Thus, we cannot guarantee the ability to cancel or change an order once the customer submits it. In the event a cancellation or change needs to be made, send an email with the subject line ORDER CHANGE/CANCELLATION and we will do our best to accommodate the request.

In the event an order ships that the customer wants to cancel, do not open the package. Mark it RTS (Return to Sender). A refund for the products will be given, however the shipping cost will not. NOTE: If you open the package, we will treat it as a return. All returns incur a 15% restocking fee. We also do not refund shipping charges.

Subsequently, if an order change ships, the customer will have two options for a resolution. The first option is to return the item with a note stating what you need AND a check to cover shipping. This amount would be equally the same as what was paid on the original order. Additionally, if you do not include a check in the request, the replacement will not be sent. The second option would be for the customer to purchase the correct item and keep what was already sent in the original order.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire
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  • Hands (1)
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  • Pendulums (3)
  • Weights (2)