Please view these information tabs to learn about the movement 1161-853 and other 1161 Hermle grandfather clock movements
1161 Hermle Clock Movement Notes
The 1161 Hermle Clock Movements are great that is why there is so many made. They work night and day for 30 years without much complaint. So here is some information on these fine German made units.
Names on the Movement
The name maybe a number of makers on the movement, but it was made by Hermle not them. It may say Howard Miller, or Ridgeway, or Sligh, or many other names. If the number on the clock movement starts with 1161- its really made by the Hermle company. They let these companies to have there name on the movement instead of Hermle.
Chain or Cable Drive
This movement was made in both cable driven and also chain driven styles. The 1161-853 is the most popular and the most produced Grandfather clock movement in the world. When ordering a new movement it will come with the chains or cables with the pulleys.
Hermle movement 1161-853 Clock Weights
This clock movement takes three clock weights to run. The weights should be close to 8 or 10lbs, and does not have to be exact. Even though it does not have to be the exact weight, here is the exact weight specification from the factory. If the pendulum bob is less than 8 1/2 inches wide, it will take two at 7.7LBS and one at 9.9LBS. If the pendulum bob is 8 1/2 inches in diameter or larger, it takes two weights at 9.9LBS and one at 7.7LBS. Often they will have a 10 1/2 inch bob with the two at 7.7 and one at 9.9 and the customer says it ran 30 years like that.
Weight PlacementThe placement for the clock weights on this series is the following. The heavy weight will go on your right as you face the clock if one heavy and two light. If there is two heavy weights and one light weight, the light one will go on your left as you face the clock. So what this means is the middle time train weight is variable light or heavy depending on pendulum bob diameter.
1161 Hermle Clock Movement Songs
This is a triple chime unit that plays out a melody on the quarter hours and then on the top of the hour it will strike out whatever times the hour is. The songs this one plays choice of the following. Westminster, Saint Micheal, or Wittington and also a silent option. For an additional cost is it able to have an auto night shut off switch (ANSO), this will make the clock quiet from 10pm to 7am on its own without your intervention.
Please note the factory will give a three year warranty. However we are clock makers here at Clockworks.com and we have been doing this sort of thing for a long time in this family (over 100 years of experience). If you have some sort of question or concern in whatever amount of time, we are not going to turn down a response, we answer whatever questions even a decade later, it really does not matter. We take care of our customers in whatever way we can. The movement comes with instructions and any questions beyond the instructions can be emailed, chatted, or called in.
About Hermle Clock Movements
Hermle clock movements are among the finest movements made in the modern times. The German made Hermle units typically work night and day for 30 years without much complaint. To go and get it restored like you normally would with any clock after a long time, it is found that is cost is high. This is for good reason as it can be a large task to restore it. But as you see, since its a modern day unit (Post War German) it can be available new for a very good price. Get a new movement instead of a fixed up old one, get it in 3 days instead of 6 months. Save hundreds of dollars doing it also.
Hermle Clock Movement Identification
Most important is the identification of the Hermle clock movement and it requires locating the numbers on the back plate of the movement itself. This can be done by removing access panels, sticking a phone inside and taking a picture, or even a mirror. Use any possible means to get the number of the Hermle clock movement. This information is not in the manual that came with the clock or on the wood case. On the back plate of the Hermle clock movement there are numbers such as 451-050 94 cm. These numbers indicate everything there is to know about that particular mechanical Hermle clock movement.
Identification is the first step
In order to purchase a new Hermle clock movement, the old number has to match up with the new one. In short, the new movement will be exactly the same. It is not a knock off. Generally speaking, all of the existing clock components will fit the new movement. Proper identification of the Hermle clock movement is important when troubleshooting, ordering parts, or discussing compatible components. Thus, when contacting us it is imperative to correctly reference the number on the backplate of the movement. If there is any confusion, send us a picture of the back plate, as close and as clear as possible, and we can help identify which Hermle clock movement is needed.
A new Hermle clock movement is best
To clarify, as previously discussed in several sections, a new Hermle clock movement is always best. A new unit is a fraction of the price of an overhaul. The clock will be up and running much faster than waiting months for an overhaul to be completed. The new Hermle clock movement will last another 30 years. This is not possible with a restored unit.
Mechanical Clock Movement Wear
Mechanical clock movement wears out after years go by because the oil turns solid. With age, the mechanical clock movement's oil solidifies and becomes black and sticky. By the time 20 or 30 years go by, the oil has solidified and is creating wear on the brass plates of the movement. So, when this happens, the clock movement will not run correctly. This is when the movement will need a cleaning at least, or be replaced. Of course, a brand new movement is always your best option.
What wear and where
Look at your old clock movement, and see holes in the brass plates where there are small pivot arbors sticking into these holes. These pivots are what the gears of the clock ride upon and as the pivots spin in the solidified oil, this makes the holes oblong instead of round. With the pivot holes oblong, the holes are pinching the pivots and creating resistance in the gear train. With the solidified oil and the pinched pivots, the clock will eventually stop working or chiming.
Invisible clock movement wear
This wear takes place in the holes that are in the brass plates and is hard to identify sometimes. These holes in the brass plates become oblong instead of round and this pinches the pivot arbor going into it. Between this, and the solid oil, the clock ceases to function. To have this repaired is an expensive and long process. To have a mechanical movement serviced can cost two times as much or even three times the amount of the new one. However, once the movement starts having problems due to the oblong pivot holes, something will need to be done. The clock will never stay running otherwise.
New Clock Movement Benefits
New clock movement benefits far outweigh the benefits of a restoration. This section will explain why that is and what the best course of action is to get your clock working.
Getting the movement worked on
Clocks need to have fresh oil after 10 years or so. Then, after 20 or 30 years, a full break down of the movement is necessary. This is all well and good and can be done with the old movement. The movement will run for another 5 or 15 years with no issues but then it will be time to do it again. So obviously this is a new clock movement benefit.
Every time the movement needs to have work done on it or needs bushings, it will last less and less time before it needs attention again. So another new clock movement benefit is that this would not happen. The repair process is expensive because it takes time to separate the plates, remove all the gears, do the necessary work, and then put them all back together again. This process may need to be redone if not perfect the first time. The turn around time to complete an overhaul on a clock movement could be anywhere from 1 to 3 months, and in some extreme cases, a year. It is a slow moving venture that costs twice as much as a new movement would. If a new clock movement is not available, then this is the best, and only, way to handle a clock repair.
Replacing with a new clock movement
If the clock movement is still in production, it is far better to just get a new clock movement. Mass production makes the movement so affordable it will cost a fraction of the price of the repair work. The new clock movement will be the same one but brand new and ready to run 30 years without much complaint. There is absolutely no way to repair an old clock movement so that it is better than new. Even the best clockmaker using the best equipment cannot make the clock movement better than a new one.
A new clock movement is a factory fresh restart. The clock will be like it was originally when you first made the purchase from the store. The new clock movement will be made by the same people, with the same machines, and the clock movement is the same. It is not a close replica or made somewhere else besides Germany. It is the same movement. Not a knock off or replica. So wouldn't it make sense to get the new clock movement instead of chasing the old? The choice is clear and obvious. The new movement will cost a fraction of the price and the clock is up and running in no time.
Movements That Would Need a Repair or an Overhaul
If a new clock movement is not possible, then a repair is most likely the only option. However we will try to convert it to a new clock movement that is close and easy to adapt. If it is not an easy one to adapt, or would take too much case work, then the best solution is to have us work on it.
Another clock movement to consider having restored instead of replacing it is the tubular bell, which is a high end movement. The price of a tubular bell new clock movement makes an overhaul more attractive. This is due to the high price on the new clock movements which is over $1600. Usually the price is less for the new unit but instead these new clock movements are more costly than the overhaul by Clockworks anyway. We can charge a much lower amount for the complete overhaul on these units. Ultimately the choice is yours. There is a good argument in both directions that makes sense on these expensive new clock movements.
Clockworks = The best repair service
We would love to do the clock movement overhaul here at Clockworks and we do the best job. There are two ways to fix clocks; the easy way and the hard way. We only repair clock movements the hard way with no short cuts. Even with new clock movements, we inspect them and make sure all is well before shipping them out. It is even more important for us to do your repair than another company because we do not go to your house. There is no one being intrusive in your home and possibly damaging your clock case.
The clock movement itself is the only item that gets sent to us. No components need to be sent since we have everything else here such as weights, dials and pendulums. It is a great advantage to have Clockworks work on your clock movement for this fact alone. A clock supply depot such as us does not need to wait for parts. We possess everything we could possibly need to complete a thorough, professional clock repair right here. If a new clock movement is not possible, then this repair is your best and only option.
The new movement
New clock movement benefits usually do indeed outweigh the repair option. The movement will already have lubrication with clock oil so there is no need to oil it. The new clock movement comes with cables and pulleys, or chains, the leader, and suspension spring. This is everything that comes out when you remove the two screws that are under the clock movement, besides the dial and weights.
Once you get the hands and the clock dial out of the way (instructions are sent via email) it's only a matter of removing the two screws from underneath. The new clock movement can then be put in by someone with experience in 10 or 15 minutes. A person with no experience will take longer, but the point is that it isn't hard to do. This is definitely a new clock movement benefit. There are some instances where a clock case was made in an annoying way that makes it more difficult, but for clock movements that were in a mass production this is not the situation. This relates more to a few individual clockmakers who's design of the case makes it more tricky to get the new clock movement in or out.
Summary of New Clock Movement Benefits
A new clock movement is typically less than half the cost of an overhaul. It will also be on its way to the customer instantly instead of months later. A new clock movement will last the longest of any other choice.
Hermle Clock Movement Aliases
Hermle produces clock movements but the use of aliases is quite prevalent. The movement could have a stamp with any name but really it will be made by Hermle. Some companies bought so many movements that they were able to get their name on the movement instead of Hermle. The following is only a partial list of names that could be on the clock movement.
The best Aliases in Disguise
Seth Thomas and Mason and Sullivan had not only their name, but also their own internal numbering system. Their stamp and number was on the movement instead of the Hermle number. Since it is not a Hermle number, the number would need to have a conversion to the real number. Correspondingly, this is done with the Mason and Sullivan chart, or the Seth Thomas conversion Chart. However the Seth Thomas chart is not very accurate, please see instructions on that page.
Best to replace the movement
It is best to replace the clock movement if either of these names are on the movement automatically. Of course, you do not have to think and decide if a repair is better, the answer is a simple no. These companies went out of business a long ago and the life of the unit is over. Ordinarily, the lifetime is 25 - 30 years before it needs an overhaul or replacement. In fact, if ST or Mason Sullivan is on the movement that would indicate the clock is about 40 years old or more.
The other Hermle Clock Movement Aliases are easy
All in all, Hermle Clock Movement Aliases on other clocks use only their name, and not their own internal numbering system on the Hermle movements. So basically if the clock is of post war German origin you can just look at the number and forget the name. Additionally, the numbers will indicate what movement it is. If it is a Hermle movement there are 3 or 4 digits then a hyphen, and then 3 more digits. For example, 1161-853 or 340-020 or 351-060. If the numbers look like this it is made by Hermle.
Other Names Used
- S. Larose
- Mason & Sullivan
- Tally Industries
- Seth Thomas
- Howard Miller
Hermle Number Examples
Below are some typical examples of the Hermle clock movement numbering system. If the clock numbers are similar to this, it is made by Hermle.
- 451-050 94cm
- 451-030 66cm
- 341-020 45cm
- 1151-050 114cm
- 451-053 94cm
- 1161-853 114cm
- 141-070 45cm
- 351-050 55cm
- 1161-850 94cm
- 241-070 94cm
Hermle Clock Movement Directory
Above all, the Hermle clock movement directory is to get to the correct page that contains the proper clock movement. This is an important first step when ordering a new clock movement. Thus, Hermle mechanical movements have numbers on the back plate starting with the below few numbers. Then a dash (-) follows and then some more numbers. For example: 340-020 131-070 1161-853 351-020 and so forth. So, if the clock says something like 1161-053 drop the second half and click the 1161 button below. Then this will bring up the page where the 1161-053 is as well as the rest of the 1161 series.
Hermle Clock Movement Directory, Number starts with.....
If Not Listed
If the old Hermle clock movement is not found on these pages we may still have it as a conversion or we may be able to create it out of what exists. However, we need to know the movement number. So please email your movement number. Of course a picture of the back plate is also helpful. Moreover, if your movement numbers do not look like the Hermle movement numbers it may be made by someone else. Additionally, the mechanical movement identification page will assist you with determining who made the clock. In any event, this is for post WW2 modern mechanical clock movements made in Germany only.
Hermle Clock Movement
The numbers on the back plate of the 1161 Hermle Clock Movement is everything one needs to get a replacement. If the numbers match then the 1161 Hermle Clock Movement matches. Please sure to select the proper CM length that matches the old unit.
- Brand New from Germany
- Plate size 140 x 200mm
- Chain or Cable Driven
- Triple Chime
- 1161 Hermle Clock Movement
- A fraction of the price of an overhaul
- Should last 25-30 years, an overhaul would not
- Instructions and expert support
- Hermle Clock Movement of Germany
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