Mechanical Clock Movement Identification

IdentificationIdentify the MovementWhy get a new movement?What Happened?Hermle Availability

Please view these information tabs to determine the Identification of the Mechanical Clock Movement .

Identifying a mechanical clock movement

To get anything for a clock movement from Clockworks we first need to identify the mechanical clock movement. This is done by decoding the identification markings on the back plate of the movement itself. By knowing what the movement is, it can be replaced with a new mechanical clock movement. Purchase parts such as a pendulum. It is very difficult to provide a pendulum or a dial to a movement without knowing what it is.

Where to get the identification information

The movement alone is what we need to identify. Once the identity is known, it is easy to know what other parts compliment that movement. The markings on the clock movement itself is what we need. In essence, the movement number is the DNA of the clock when it comes to Identifying a mechanical clock movement. It tells us all the information about the movement. All of the parts work together, so with the movement number we can recommend other parts.

What is not to used for Identifying a mechanical clock movement

The paperwork or manuals that come with the clock upon purchasing does us no good. It has no bearing in the identification process. Neither does any of the stickers on the clock case. The reason being the clock case maker is not the same as the movement maker usually. In a typical modern post WW2 clock, such as a grandfather clock, it is possible to have a different maker for each of the components. In other words, the dial can be by one maker and the pendulum by another. The identity of the clock movement itself is what needs to be known in order to get a replacement. This is true for any of the other items such as the dial. So the identification is all about the clock movement only.

Confirm the country of origin

The country of origin will eliminate many possibilities for the manufacturer of the movement. Look at the back plate of the movement. If the mechanical movement has a stamp of Germany, the availability for a replacement is quite high and we can help with a new one.

If it is not made in Germany

The majority of clocks after WW2 are German with the exception of 31 day China and Korean units. Thus, if the clock was made after WW2 and is not a 31 day then it is most likely German. If the clock is made in any other country besides Germany things are not as easy. If the movement has a stamp from another country, please email pictures of the movement. We can offer a repair or replacement parts. If a German unit, need the numbers off of the back plate of the movement itself. It will be right off the brass back plate.

The German identifying markings

This is not always easy to get to. Sometimes the clock case has side access panels that come off. It is also possible to stick a cell phone up in the clock case to take a picture. Others ways include a mirror and a flashlight. The point being, we need those numbers. Often the movement numbers will be on the lower right of the back plate of the movement. Very few clocks have the identification information on the front plate. Only some antique American units have this type of information on the front plate instead of the back.

The German ID will allow us to do some things

The movement number on the back plate provides all the information about the clock. Although it may not say the manufacturer on the movement, the numbers will give this information. The movement number usually tells us the way the clock chimes, the location of the chime hammers, if it's weight or spring driven and much more. When the movement number is known, a replacement can be ordered and it will be the same movement as the old one.

Usually all the old parts such as the clock weights, pendulum and hands will work with the new movement. This is because the new one will be the exact same thing as your old movement. This is why it is important that the movement number is the first thing that needs to be known. Everything revolves around that number. Of course, this will always be the first question that we ask if someone needs a replacement movement. So if you call or email be sure to have this number ready. We will not be able to help without it or at least a picture.

mechanical clock movement identification

Now done with Identifying a mechanical clock movement

Use the examples to narrow down the manufacturer of your movement. Go to that Clockworks web page to order the movement. The picture might not look the same as the movement. Do not worry if the picture is not exactly the same as the old movement. Matching the mechanical clock movement number is what makes the difference. If the old movement number matches the one on the list, then you will get that same movement. If there is any question, send an email so we can clarify things. It is better to ask a question than to not get the right item when Identifying a mechanical clock movement.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire in year 2020

New Clock Movement Benefits

New clock movement benefits far outweigh the benefits of a restoration. This section will explain why that is and what the best course of action is to get your clock working.

Getting the movement worked on

Clocks need to have fresh oil after 10 years or so. Then, after 20 or 30 years, a full break down of the movement is necessary. This is all well and good and can be done with the old movement. The movement will run for another 5 or 15 years with no issues but then it will be time to do it again. So obviously this is a new clock movement benefit.

Every time the movement needs to have work done on it or needs bushings, it will last less and less time before it needs attention again. So another new clock movement benefit is that this would not happen. The repair process is expensive because it takes time to separate the plates, remove all the gears, do the necessary work, and then put them all back together again. This process may need to be redone if not perfect the first time. The turn around time to complete an overhaul on a clock movement could be anywhere from 1 to 3 months, and in some extreme cases, a year. It is a slow moving venture that costs twice as much as a new movement would. If a new clock movement is not available, then this is the best, and only, way to handle a clock repair.

Replacing with a new clock movement

If the clock movement is still in production, it is far better to just get a new clock movement. Mass production makes the movement so affordable it will cost a fraction of the price of the repair work. The new clock movement will be the same one but brand new and ready to run 30 years without much complaint. There is absolutely no way to repair an old clock movement so that it is better than new. Even the best clockmaker using the best equipment cannot make the clock movement better than a new one.

A new clock movement is a factory fresh restart. The clock will be like it was originally when you first made the purchase from the store. The new clock movement will be made by the same people, with the same machines, and the clock movement is the same. It is not a close replica or made somewhere else besides Germany. It is the same movement. Not a knock off or replica. So wouldn't it make sense to get the new clock movement instead of chasing the old? The choice is clear and obvious. The new movement will cost a fraction of the price and the clock is up and running in no time.

Movements That Would Need a Repair or an Overhaul

If a new clock movement is not possible, then a repair is most likely the only option. However we will try to convert it to a new clock movement that is close and easy to adapt. If it is not an easy one to adapt, or would take too much case work, then the best solution is to have us work on it.

Another clock movement to consider having restored instead of replacing it is the tubular bell, which is a high end movement. The price of a tubular bell new clock movement makes an overhaul more attractive. This is due to the high price on the new clock movements which is over $1600. Usually the price is less for the new unit but instead these new clock movements are more costly than the overhaul by Clockworks anyway. We can charge a much lower amount for the complete overhaul on these units. Ultimately the choice is yours. There is a good argument in both directions that makes sense on these expensive new clock movements.

Clockworks = The best repair service

We would love to do the clock movement overhaul here at Clockworks and we do the best job. There are two ways to fix clocks; the easy way and the hard way. We only repair clock movements the hard way with no short cuts. Even with new clock movements, we inspect them and make sure all is well before shipping them out. It is even more important for us to do your repair than another company because we do not go to your house. There is no one being intrusive in your home and possibly damaging your clock case.

The clock movement itself is the only item that gets sent to us. No components need to be sent since we have everything else here such as weights, dials and pendulums. It is a great advantage to have Clockworks work on your clock movement for this fact alone. A clock supply depot such as us does not need to wait for parts. We possess everything we could possibly need to complete a thorough, professional clock repair right here. If a new clock movement is not possible, then this repair is your best and only option.

The new movement

New clock movement benefits usually do indeed outweigh the repair option. The movement will already have lubrication with clock oil so there is no need to oil it. The new clock movement comes with cables and pulleys, or chains, the leader, and suspension spring. This is everything that comes out when you remove the two screws that are under the clock movement, besides the dial and weights.

Once you get the hands and the clock dial out of the way (instructions are sent via email) it's only a matter of removing the two screws from underneath. The new clock movement can then be put in by someone with experience in 10 or 15 minutes. A person with no experience will take longer, but the point is that it isn't hard to do. This is definitely a new clock movement benefit. There are some instances where a clock case was made in an annoying way that makes it more difficult, but for clock movements that were in a mass production this is not the situation. This relates more to a few individual clockmakers who's design of the case makes it more tricky to get the new clock movement in or out.

Summary of New Clock Movement Benefits

A new clock movement is typically less than half the cost of an overhaul. It will also be on its way to the customer instantly instead of months later. A new clock movement will last the longest of any other choice.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire in year 2020

Mechanical Clock Movement Wear

Mechanical clock movement wears out after years go by because the oil turns solid. With age, the mechanical clock movement's oil solidifies and becomes black and sticky. By the time 20 or 30 years go by, the oil has solidified and is creating wear on the brass plates of the movement. So, when this happens, the clock movement will not run correctly. This is when the movement will need a cleaning at least, or be replaced. Of course, a brand new movement is always your best option.

What wear and where

Look at your old clock movement, and see holes in the brass plates where there are small pivot arbors sticking into these holes. These pivots are what the gears of the clock ride upon and as the pivots spin in the solidified oil, this makes the holes oblong instead of round. With the pivot holes oblong, the holes are pinching the pivots and creating resistance in the gear train. With the solidified oil and the pinched pivots, the clock will eventually stop working or chiming.

Invisible clock movement wear

This wear takes place in the holes that are in the brass plates and is hard to identify sometimes. These holes in the brass plates become oblong instead of round and this pinches the pivot arbor going into it. Between this, and the solid oil, the clock ceases to function. To have this repaired is an expensive and long process. To have a mechanical movement serviced can cost two times as much or even three times the amount of the new one. However, once the movement starts having problems due to the oblong pivot holes, something will need to be done. The clock will never stay running otherwise.

The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire in year 2020

Hermle Mechanical Clock Movement Availability

Hermle Mechanical Clock Movement Availability is excellent. Clockworks.com stocks all Hermle Clock Movements, with very few exceptions. Some special CM lengths may be a special order. If it's not on the charts Clockworks.com may still have it, just contact us. Please call or email a picture to Clockworks.com so we can help. If a CM option is not in the list, Clockworks.com can still make it up special.

Who is Hermle?

Hermle is one of the largest movement producers in the world today. Not only do they have the most movements being made, but they also have the best part availability. This is good for when you need a component such as a pendulum or a dial, or a complete clock kit. A Hermle Clock Movement generally lasts 25 to as much as 40 years. We usually get calls to replace units that were built in the early 80's or late 70's.

Hermle Mechanical Movement Availability - Why get the new one?

Replacing these units rather than having them go through oiling and cleaning is usually the smart way to go. There are factory improvements, it's brand new, the factory lubricates them, and they are easy to install. The new one would cost a fraction of the price of a restoration on the old unit. Keep in mind however, that there are different grades of the same movement number. Some are cheaper, but they contain plastic parts. The Hermle units that we offer here at Clockworks.com are the best grade available.

What numbers to get

The movement number has three or four numbers, then a dash, and some more numbers, then a CM length underneath it if there is a pendulum. They are all consistent as they always have the numbers, then a dash, then more numbers. Basically if there is a dash in the movement number, and it's all numbers in the beginning with no letters like "A", it's a Hermle unit for sure. If there is an A before the number then it can still be a Hermle, but with the Seth Thomas name and numbering system.

What the numbers mean

On the back plate of the clock movement you will see the numbers such as 451-050 94cm. These numbers let us know everything we need to know about the mechanical clock movement itself. This tells us if the clock is weight driven or spring driven, if it has a pendulum, the size of the movement and the length of the hand shaft and much more. To match up the numbers to the new movement numbers is to get the exact same movement you have now but brand new. Since the new movement will be the exact same and not some knock off imitation, all of your existing clock components will usually fit just the same as the old unit.

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The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire in year 2020

Hermle Clock Movement Availability

Of course Clockworks offers excellent availability on all Hermle mechanical clock movements. In fact, all Hermle clock movements are in stock with very few exceptions. However, a certain pendulum CM length that was available in the past may not be available off the shelf. Thus, this situation would require a regear with a new movement. Specifically, this means that a new Hermle clock movement is taken apart and new gears put in to be the CM length that your particular movement needs. Clockworks separates the movement plates and alters the CM length manually to match the old unit. So if the stamp on your old movement has a CM that is not in the list on our website, please email or call us to place the order.

Hermle identification

Hermle clock movement identification is quite consistent. Since they always have the numbers, then a dash, then more numbers it is easy to discern a Hermle movement above all others. Basically if there is a dash in the movement number, and there are all numbers in the beginning with no letters like "A", it's a Hermle clock movements for sure. If there is an A before the number, then it can still be a Hermle, but with the Seth Thomas name and numbering system.

Now if the movement has an "A" and is what you have, then navigate to the Seth Thomas page to view the Hermle clock movement conversions. Of course Clockworks welcomes all emails if in doubt. So please reach out if there is any question as to what to order. In fact, it is always a good idea to double check Hermle clock movement numbers especially when dealing with a conversion.

See All Hermle
Hermle clock movement 341-020 Identification
9 Tubular Bell Hermle 1171-890
Hermle 1151-053
341-020 clock movement
The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire in year 2020

Kieninger Clock Movement Availability

Most Kieninger mechanical clock movements are available and in stock. However, some Kieninger clock movement availability fluctuates back and forth. For instance, the H series movement will be in production for awhile and then it will go dormant. In other words, it is made for a short period of time and then the manufacturer will cease production for a period of time.

Similarly, other Kieninger clock movements are no longer available such as the popular 5 tubular bell Grandfather unit. So a restoration is the best option for this type of movement. Often, a restoration is the only option when a movement becomes obsolete. Also, when it comes to high end movements such as that one, the repair would be less expensive than a new one. Usually this is not the case but for these it is. In short, if there is any question about the movement you want to replace, just send an email and Clockworks will be able to sort out the availability of the Kieninger clock movement.

Kieninger identification

Above all, Kieninger clock movements can be a bit tricky to tell what the exact movement is. Of course, the movement provides only part of the movement identification. Then, it is up to us to use the chart to figure out the rest of it. Thus narrowing down to the correct movement by selecting chain driven or cable driven. Also,the pendulum length, and so on. Again, if there is any question on Kieninger clock movement availability, just get in contact with us for assistance. Of course we realize this can be tough to figure out so we are always happy to help with this process.

See All Kieninger
MSU Kieninger Clock Movement Identification
Kieninger K Series
Kieninger SPS
Kieninger R Series
The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire in year 2020

Urgos Clock Movement Availability

Only three weight floor clock movements are still in production. In other words, the rest of these units are obsolete and no longer available new. So, in this situation, the use of a Hermle conversion can sometimes be put together as a replacement option. Therefore, email us the movement number to determine the Urgos clock movement availability if it is not in the list of conversions.

Urgos identification

Of course, narrowing down a three weight Urgos clock movement can get complicated as the movement numbers change every production run. So what was once a UW32/1 is now a UW32319 and so on. Thus making it a bit more difficult to ascertain the availability. Therefore, a description with more details about these conversions can be found on the Urgos page. Then click on the picture to pull up that page.

See All Urgos
Urgos Clock Movement Identification
32319 Urgos Clock Movement Identification
Urgos 32001
Urgos 03012
The content of this website is copyright by Clockworks and written by James Stoudenmire in year 2020

Seth Thomas Availability

If the Seth Thomas mechanical clock movement says made in Germany, then use our list to see what the real clock movement numbers are so you can price it out and order it. The company did not produce any modern clock movements however their name is marked on them as their own. If the clock says Seth Thomas but it was produced after 1960 it is made by someone else with the Seth Thomas name.

Seth Thomas identification

The Seth Thomas name has been sold many times and the name could be on any style of clock case. The ST name can be seen on battery movements, novelty clocks, German mechanical units and so on. If the clock is very old and made in the USA with an ST marking in a diamond shape it is an original Seth Thomas. There would be no replacement movement for this and the only option is to get it repaired.


Jauch movement availability

The Jauch clock company is no longer in business and nothing is available new. Since these are no longer made, we may be able to help with a Hermle mechanical clock movement retrofit instead.

Jauch identification

Jauch clock movements have little identification markings to go by. Often it will be as simple as a 77 or 78 before some other numbers. It may only say PL 77 or PL 116 also. If the movement says Jauch and some other numbers, it is the Jauch clock movement company who made it.


Mason and Sullivan availability

Mason and Sullivan did not make any clock movements themselves so their Mechanical Clock Movement Identification is a bit different. They purchased an abundance of mechanical clock movements from manufacturers and were able to have their name put on the movements with their own numbering system.

Mason and Sullivan identification

The Mason and Sullivan page is needed to look up the M+S Mechanical Clock Movement number. This chart will help find the real Mechanical clock movement number from the true manufacturer.