340/341 Hermle Clock Movement
Please view these information tabs to learn more about the 340-020 and other Hermle Clock Movement 340/341 units
Timing a balance clock movement
Balance Clock Movement Timing is done fairly easy. There are three types of clock balance movement styles post 1950. This section is for those balance units that do not have a platform escapement.
The platform escapement can be read about in another section. These notes are only for the larger balance wheel in the top center of the clock movement.
For example, movements in the Urgos 6/ series and many of the Hermle clock movements. Hermle movements such as 340-020 and 350-020. Out of these, two styles, the old style and then the new style.
Use of the old style was all through the 70's and 80's and 90's. Around this time there was a switch to the new style on the Hermle units. By this time the Urgos units were out of production.
The old style
The old style is one with a round spring that goes up and down (Vertical). It goes in a circle around the center arbor of the balance wheel. In this style there is a slide arm with a tiny weight on the balance wheel itself. There is a + and - on the wheel. To speed up time go towards the plus sign.
However this style is not always easy to regulate and can be very hard to get it perfect. The factory has special devices to make it perfect. However it’s not that easy on the customer end with this style balance. For this reason it has been improved upon during future manufacturing.
If the old style balance then the clock movement has some age to it. If this is the situation it is just best to replace the unit with the new one. Clockworks offers the movement brand new with the new style balance for less than the cost of a cleaning.
The clock movement has lasted 25 years or more. In theory the new unit should last more than this with the improved aspects.
The new style
The non pendulum units offered on this page all have the new and improved balance assemblies. Despite the change on the balance, these units are a direct fit and will install in the clock case the exact same way as the old unit.
If the numbers match from the old unit to the numbers offered on this page, than the movement will be the exact same. It will be the same as it is now but brand new and with the improved balance.
The improved upon balance units have a different kind of hairspring (Horizontal). It will also have a screw to regulate it rather than a slider arm. The regulator screw is on the back of the movement near the balance.
There is a + and - sign next to it meaning fast or slow. If the clock needs to be faster to keep time then the screw would be turned to the plus and opposite for slowing time.
The factory times the balance movement before the new movement ships. The movement has a slider arm on the threaded portion of the timing adjustment screw. This arm pulls or pushes the horizontal hair spring and makes the clock run faster or slower.
When the movement leaves the factory this arm is in the center of that threaded rod and is timed while the arm is at that location. During shipping it is possible for this arm to jump out of its center position and, in turn, make the timing out of whack.
The solution to this is to first just lift that timing arm with fingers and move it to the center of the threads again. This is where timing begins.
After it is in the center of the threads it will be pretty close in timing and only will need fine adjustment with the screw, moving it too the plus sign for faster, minus sign for slower.
Hermle 340-341 clock-movement notes
Hermle 340-341 clock-movement notes begins with a little history. This is such a popular little movement, with so many sold, and for good reasons. It is compact and versatile, hard working and cost efficient. Also, the movement will work 20 or 30 years night and day without much complaint.
Can fit into tight places, it can come in either a pendulum version or a balance wheel instead. The advantage of a balance wheel is there is no pendulum to put in beat, you can move it without readjusting the beat.
Also with a balance wheel you never have to care if its level or not. The pendulum unit advantage is that louder tick tock sound. If the pendulum is visible through the glass it is a nice hypnotic thing to look at and listen to.
A size 8 key winds up both the 340 and 341 clock movements, a single wind lasts 8 days. In addition, it will be ready for installation upon arrival. The 340 and 341 Hermle clock movement series comes with an application of oil on it and is ready to go.
Sold as the movement itself with its hand nut and hammers. If a pendulum unit, it will come with its suspension spring and leader. Already oiled Hermle 340-341 clock movement comes ready for installation.
Westminster progressively playing each quarter hour, and the full song on the top of the hour. The striking out of the hours follows this.
The hammer location on these units are on the bottom, with 5 hammer heads that strike chime rods. This aspect does not vary on these units, they are all consistent with the 5 hammer below attribute on all 340 and 341 movements.
Does not include Chime On / Off switch
If the clock has an on and off switch now, remove it by taking out the one screw and putting it on the new movement. The new movement does not have this chime on / off switch. The location of this is sometimes on the right side of the front plate.
Improved Balance on Hermle 340 clock movement series
The old style balance units such as the 340-020 had a spiral spring vertical up the balance. The improvements on the new style will be a horizontal spring and the F / S adjustment is by a set screw. The timing will already be done at the factory anyways so setting the time will only be slight.
It might not need it at all. This change is a big improvement so the life expectancy of this new unit should surpass the old one. Everything will fit the same.
Hammer Positioning the 340 / 341 series
The 340 and 341 Hermle clock movement series went through a change in the hammer wires. The hammer heads used to be on wires now they are made on flat bars. This is dealt with in the same way as above, it is just not as easy to bend.
The hammer head is on the skinny end of the bar, the bar gets wider as it goes back toward the roll pin. The point to bend this bar is at the place where it goes from skinny to wide with needle nose pliers. The overall assembly will be higher from the chime block slightly.
That is if swapping out the movement with the wire hammer head rod older style. It is an option to raise the entire chimeblock with a shim underneath it to help with this. It is not an absolute requirement, bending the hammer arms are usually sufficient.
Different Hammer Head Wires
The older 341 and 340 series clock movements had the chime hammer head on wires instead of flat bars. The new style being sent will have the flat bars with the hammer heads on the end.
It makes no difference to fitting the movement into the case, but it may make a difference as far as bending the rods to meet the chime rods. Bending of the chime hammers to be 1/8 inch away from the rod at rest is the goal.
This is what was done when the case was built and the original movement was put in. However, the older wire style could be bent in a more extreme manner than the new style. What could previously be bent an inch with ease is now not as easily done with the flat bars. In some rare cases it would be best to put a shim under the chime block to make up for the gap.
- A fraction of the price of an overhaul
- Should last 25-30 years, an overhaul would not
- Instructions and expert support
- Hermle Clock Movement of Germany
About Hermle Clock Movements
Hermle clock movements are among the finest movements made in the modern times. The German made Hermle units typically work night and day for 30 years without much complaint.
To go and get it restored like normally would with any clock after a long time, it is found that is cost is high. This is for good reason as it can be a large task to restore it.
But as seen, since its a modern day unit (Post War German) it can be available new for a very good price.
Get a new movement instead of a fixed up old one, get it in 3 days instead of 6 months. Save hundreds of dollars doing it also.
All the Hermle clock movements Clockworks offers is the best grade. In other words there are a couple styles some units have that are not as good as others. There are various movements that have more than one grade.
Some units can have plastic for the hour hand tube and the next wheel down, instead the better brass. Meanwhile the number is the same for both grades. In other words there is the economy grade and there is the full grade, on some movement series.
Please know that Clockworks will only ship the best grade Hermle clock movements available, every time.
What will be received
Each one of the these fine Hermle clock movements come already oiled, will come with the hand nut also.
If it is a pendulum style clock, it will come with the suspension spring and the pendulum hanger (leader).
If its a weight driven clock, it will come with new chains or cables and with pulleys.
So this will be the movement with its hammer assemble on.
This is the complete movement that comes out of the clock. No weights, pendulum, chime block, hands, dial all this is already present usually.
Upon ordering Hermle Clock Movements
When placing an online order a receipt will be emailed provided the correct email address is entered. If no receipt, please check the spam folder for the receipt from us.
On the receipt is the link to click for the instructions for the product. The Hermle clock movements ships from Huntington, MA 01050 USA and sometimes from other locations also. The movements go out the next business day unless there is something we have to do to it such as a regear.
The Hermle clock movement ships out UPS or sometimes FedEx. Movements rarely ship via USPS unless there is a special request or an international customer.
Hermle Clock Movement Identification
Most important is the identification of the Hermle clock movement and it requires locating the numbers on the back plate of the movement itself.
This can be done by removing access panels, sticking a phone inside and taking a picture, or even a mirror. Use any possible means to get the number of the Hermle clock movement. This information is not in the manual that came with the clock or on the wood case.
On the back plate of the Hermle clock movement there are numbers such as 451-050 94 cm. These numbers indicate everything there is to know about that particular mechanical Hermle clock movement.
Identification is the first step
In order to purchase a new Hermle clock movement, the old number has to match up with the new one. In short, the new movement will be exactly the same.
It is not a knock off. Generally speaking, all of the existing clock components will fit the new movement. Proper identification of the Hermle clock movement is important when troubleshooting, ordering parts, or discussing compatible components.
Thus, when contacting us it is imperative to correctly reference the number on the backplate of the movement. If there is any confusion, send us a picture of the back plate, as close and as clear as possible, and we can help identify which Hermle clock movement is needed.
A new Hermle clock movement is best
To clarify, as previously discussed in several sections, a new Hermle clock movement is always best. A new unit is a fraction of the price of an overhaul.
The clock will be up and running much faster than waiting months for an overhaul to be completed. The new Hermle clock movement will last another 30 years. This is not possible with a restored unit.
Mechanical Clock Movement Wear
Mechanical clock movement wears out after years go by because the oil turns solid. With age, the mechanical clock movement's oil solidifies and becomes black and sticky.
By the time 20 or 30 years go by, the oil has solidified and is creating wear on the brass plates of the movement. So, when this happens, the clock movement will not run correctly.
This is when the movement will need a cleaning at least, or be replaced. Of course, a brand new movement is always the best option.
What wear and where
Look at the old clock movement, and see holes in the brass plates where there are small pivot arbors sticking into these holes. These pivots are what the gears of the clock ride upon and as the pivots spin in the solidified oil, this makes the holes oblong instead of round.
With the pivot holes oblong, the holes are pinching the pivots and creating resistance in the gear train. With the solidified oil and the pinched pivots, the clock will eventually stop working or chiming.
Invisible clock movement wear
This wear takes place in the holes that are in the brass plates and is hard to identify sometimes. These holes in the brass plates become oblong instead of round and this pinches the pivot arbor going into it. Between this, and the solid oil, the clock ceases to function.
To have this repaired is an expensive and long process. To have a mechanical movement serviced can cost two times as much or even three times the amount of the new one.
However, once the movement starts having problems due to the oblong pivot holes, something will need to be done. The clock will never stay running otherwise.
New Clock Movement Benefits
New clock movement benefits far outweigh the benefits of a restoration. This section will explain why that is and what the best course of action is to get your clock working.
Servicing the movement
Clocks need to have fresh oil after 10 years or so. Then, after 20 or 30 years, a full break down of the movement is necessary. This is all well and good and can be done with the old movement.
The movement will run for another 5 or 15 years with no issues but then it will be time to do it again. So obviously this is a new clock movement benefit.
Every time the movement needs to have work done on it or needs bushings, it will last less and less time before it needs attention again. So another new clock movement benefit is that this would not happen.
The repair process is expensive because it takes time to separate the plates, remove all the gears, do the necessary work, and then put them all back together again.
This process may need to be redone if not perfect the first time. The turn around time to complete an overhaul on a clock movement could be anywhere from 1 to 3 months, and in some extreme cases, a year.
It is a slow moving venture that costs twice as much as a new movement would. If a new clock movement is not available, then this is the best, and only, way to handle a clock repair.
Replacing with a new clock movement
If the clock movement is still in production, it is far better to just get the new clock movement. Mass production makes the movement so affordable it will cost a fraction of the price of the repair work.
The new clock movement will be the same one but brand new and ready to run 30 years without much complaint. There is absolutely no way to repair an old clock movement so that it is better than new.
Even the best clockmaker using the best equipment cannot make the clock movement better than a new one.
A new clock movement is a factory fresh restart. The clock will be like it was originally when you first made the purchase from the store. The new clock movement will be made by the same people, with the same machines, and the clock movement is the same.
It is not a close replica or made somewhere else besides Germany. It is the same movement. Not a knock off or replica. So wouldn't it make sense to get the new clock movement instead of chasing the old?
The choice is clear and obvious. The new movement will cost a fraction of the price and the clock is up and running in no time.
Movements That Would Need a Repair or an Overhaul
If a new clock movement is not possible, then a repair is most likely the only option. However we will try to convert it to a new clock movement that is close and easy to adapt.
If it is not an easy one to adapt, or would take too much case work, then the best solution is to have us work on it. Another clock movement to consider having restored instead of replacing it is the tubular bell, which is a high end movement.
The price of a tubular bell new clock movement makes an overhaul more attractive. This is due to the high price on the new clock movements which is over $1600.
Usually the price is less for the new unit but instead these new clock movements are more costly than the overhaul by Clockworks anyway.
We can charge a much lower amount for the complete overhaul on these units. Ultimately the choice is yours. There is a good argument in both directions that makes sense on these expensive new clock movements.
Clockworks = The best repair service
We would love to do the clock movement overhaul here at Clockworks and we do the best job. There are two ways to fix clocks; the easy way and the hard way. We only repair clock movements the hard way with no short cuts.
Even with new clock movements, we inspect them and make sure all is well before shipping them out. It is even more important for us to do your repair than another company because we do not go to your house. There is no one being intrusive in your home and possibly damaging your clock case.
The clock movement itself is the only item that gets sent to us. No components need to be sent since we have everything else here such as weights, dials and pendulums. It is a great advantage to have Clockworks work on your clock movement for this fact alone.
A clock supply depot such as us does not need to wait for parts. We possess everything we could possibly need to complete a thorough, professional clock repair right here. If a new clock movement is not possible, then this repair is your best and only option.
The new movement
New clock movement benefits usually do indeed outweigh the repair option. The movement will already have lubrication with clock oil so there is no need to oil it.
The new clock movement comes with cables and pulleys, or chains, the leader, and suspension spring.
This is everything that comes out when you remove the two screws that are under the clock movement, besides the dial and weights.
Once you get the hands and the clock dial out of the way (instructions are sent via email) it's only a matter of removing the two screws from underneath.
The new clock movement can then be put in by someone with experience in 10 or 15 minutes. A person with no experience will take longer, but the point is that it isn't hard to do. This is definitely a new clock movement benefit.
There are some instances where a clock case was made in an annoying way that makes it more difficult, but for clock movements that were in a mass production this is not the situation. This relates more to a few individual clockmakers who's design of the case makes it more tricky to get the new clock movement in or out.
Summary of New Clock Movement Benefits
A new clock movement is typically less than half the cost of an overhaul.
It will also be on its way to the customer instantly instead of months later. A new clock movement will last the longest of any other choice.
Hermle Clock Movement Aliases
Hermle produces clock movements but the use of aliases is quite prevalent. The movement could have a stamp with any name but really it will be made by Hermle.
Some companies bought so many movements that they were able to get their name on the movement instead of Hermle. The following is only a partial list of names that could be on the clock movement.
The best Aliases in Disguise
Seth Thomas and Mason and Sullivan had not only their name, but also their own internal numbering system.
Their stamp and number was on the movement instead of the Hermle number. Since it is not a Hermle number, the number would need to have a conversion to the real number. Correspondingly, this is done with the Mason and Sullivan chart, or the Seth Thomas conversion Chart.
However the Seth Thomas chart is not very accurate, please see instructions on that page.
Best to replace the movement
It is best to replace the clock movement if either of these names are on the movement automatically. Of course, do not have to think and decide if a repair is better, the answer is a simple no. These companies went out of business a long ago and the life of the unit is over.
Ordinarily, the lifetime is 25 - 30 years before it needs an overhaul or replacement. In fact, if ST or Mason Sullivan is on the movement that would indicate the clock is about 40 years old or more.
The other Hermle Clock Movement Aliases are easy
All in all, Hermle Clock Movement Aliases on other clocks use only their name, and not their own internal numbering system on the Hermle movements. So basically if the clock is of post war German origin just look at the number and forget the name.
Additionally, the numbers will indicate what movement it is. If it is a Hermle movement there are 3 or 4 digits then a hyphen, and then 3 more digits. For example, 1161-853 or 340-020 or 351-060. If the numbers look like this it is made by Hermle.
Other Names Used
- S. Larose
- Mason & Sullivan
- Tally Industries
- Seth Thomas
- Howard Miller
Hermle Number Examples
Below are some typical examples of the Hermle clock movement numbering system. If the clock numbers are similar to this, it is made by Hermle.
- 451-050 94cm
- 451-030 66cm
- 341-020 45cm
- 1151-050 114cm
- 451-053 94cm
- 1161-853 114cm
- 141-070 45cm
- 351-050 55cm
- 1161-850 94cm
- 241-070 94cm
Hermle Clock Movement Directory Explanation
Above all, a Hermle Clock Movement Directory is to get to the correct page that contains the clock movement. This is an important first step when ordering a new clock movement.
Thus, Hermle mechanical movements have numbers on the back plate starting with the below few numbers.
Then a dash (-) follows and then some more numbers. For example: 340-020 131-070 1161-853 351-020 and so forth.
So, if the clock says something like 1161-053 drop the second half and click the 1161 button below. Then this will go to the page where the 1161-053 is as well as the rest of the 1161 series.
Hermle Clock Movement Directory, Number starts with.....
If Not Listed
If the Hermle clock movement is not found on these pages we may still have it as a conversion or we may be able to create it out of what exists. However, we need to know the movement number.
So please email the movement number. Of course a picture of the back plate is also helpful. Moreover, if the movement numbers do not look like the Hermle movement numbers it may be made by someone else.
Additionally, the mechanical movement identification page will assist with determining who made the clock. In any event, this is for post WW2 modern mechanical clock movements made in Germany only.
340 - 341 Hermle Clock Movement
The numbers on the back plate of the 340 - 341 Hermle Clock Movement is everything one needs to get a replacement. If the numbers match then the movement will match.
If the clock is a pendulum unit, be sure to select the proper CM length that matches the old unit. For example it may say 341-020 45cm on the Hermle Clock Movement. If the clock movement has an A at the end such as 341-020A, just ignore the A.