Hermle Clock Movement - Replace instead of repair. A fraction of the price, lasts longer, ships now. Instructions and expert support. - Clockworks
Clock Movement 461MVT NotesHermle MovementsHermle IDWhat Happened?Why get newNames UsedHermle Directory
Hermle Clock Movement 461 series, such as 461-853. Information on these units can be viewed on these tabs.
461 Hermle Clock Movement
The Hermle 461 series clock movement is either chain or cable driven, three weight, Westminster chime unit. It is the same movement as the 1161 series, but Westminster only instead of triple chime. In other words it plays one song instead of three. But really, people with triple chime clocks only listen to Westminster in the end because it sounds the best. The 461-853 is the most used of this series and is the most produced 461 also.
We been working on clocks for 100 years in this family. If stuck, just as for help. In fact it does not matter if its 10 years from now, if questions, ask them by all means. The warranty on this movement from the factory is 3 years.
To get a clock movement overhauled can seem like forever. Besides costing 3 times the amount of money as the new one, it can also take months to finish. When its done, get a working used movement back and hope it works. Not with the new one! Ships today, already oiled, instructions to put it in, no knock offs it is the same unit, the choice is obvious. The new one will come with the cables and pulleys already installed, or the chains depending on what one, its already oiled and ready to go.
Hermle clock movements are among the finest movements made in the modern times. The German made Hermle units typically work night and day for 30 years without much complaint.
To go and get it restored like normally would with any clock after a long time, it is found that is cost is high. This is for good reason as it can be a large task to restore it.
But as seen, since its a modern day unit (Post War German) it can be available new for a very good price.
Get a new movement instead of a fixed up old one, get it in 3 days instead of 6 months. Save hundreds of dollars doing it also.
All the Hermle clock movements Clockworks offers is the best grade. In other words there are a couple styles some units have that are not as good as others. There are various movements that have more than one grade.
Some units can have plastic for the hour hand tube and the next wheel down, instead the better brass. Meanwhile the number is the same for both grades. In other words there is the economy grade and there is the full grade, on some movement series.
Please know that Clockworks will only ship the best grade Hermle clock movements available, every time.
When placing an online order a receipt will be emailed provided the correct email address is entered. If no receipt, please check the spam folder for the receipt from us.
On the receipt is the link to click for the instructions for the product. The Hermle clock movements ships from Huntington, MA 01050 USA and sometimes from other locations also. The movements go out the next business day unless there is something we have to do to it such as a regear.
The Hermle clock movement ships out UPS or sometimes FedEx. Movements rarely ship via USPS unless there is a special request or an international customer.
Most important is the identification of the Hermle clock movement and it requires locating the numbers on the back plate of the movement itself.
This can be done by removing access panels, sticking a phone inside and taking a picture, or even a mirror. Use any possible means to get the number of the Hermle clock movement. This information is not in the manual that came with the clock or on the wood case.
On the back plate of the Hermle clock movement there are numbers such as 451-050 94 cm. These numbers indicate everything there is to know about that particular mechanical Hermle clock movement.
Identification is the first step
In order to purchase a new Hermle clock movement, the old number has to match up with the new one. In short, the new movement will be exactly the same.
It is not a knock off. Generally speaking, all of the existing clock components will fit the new movement. Proper identification of the Hermle clock movement is important when troubleshooting, ordering parts, or discussing compatible components.
Thus, when contacting us it is imperative to correctly reference the number on the backplate of the movement. If there is any confusion, send us a picture of the back plate, as close and as clear as possible, and we can help identify which Hermle clock movement is needed.
A new Hermle clock movement is best
To clarify, as previously discussed in several sections, a new Hermle clock movement is always best. A new unit is a fraction of the price of an overhaul.
The clock will be up and running much faster than waiting months for an overhaul to be completed. The new Hermle clock movement will last another 30 years. This is not possible with a restored unit.
By the time 20 or 30 years go by, the oil has solidified and is creating wear on the brass plates of the movement. So, when this happens, the clock movement will not run correctly.
This is when the movement will need a cleaning at least, or be replaced. Of course, a brand new movement is always the best option.
What wear and where
Look at the old clock movement, and see holes in the brass plates where there are small pivot arbors sticking into these holes. These pivots are what the gears of the clock ride upon and as the pivots spin in the solidified oil, this makes the holes oblong instead of round.
With the pivot holes oblong, the holes are pinching the pivots and creating resistance in the gear train. With the solidified oil and the pinched pivots, the clock will eventually stop working or chiming.
Invisible clock movement wear
This wear takes place in the holes that are in the brass plates and is hard to identify sometimes. These holes in the brass plates become oblong instead of round and this pinches the pivot arbor going into it. Between this, and the solid oil, the clock ceases to function.
To have this repaired is an expensive and long process. To have a mechanical movement serviced can cost two times as much or even three times the amount of the new one.
However, once the movement starts having problems due to the oblong pivot holes, something will need to be done. The clock will never stay running otherwise.
New clock movement benefits far outweigh the benefits of a restoration. This section will explain why that is and what the best course of action is to get your clock working.
Servicing the movement
Clocks need to have fresh oil after 10 years or so. Then, after 20 or 30 years, a full break down of the movement is necessary. This is all well and good and can be done with the old movement.
The movement will run for another 5 or 15 years with no issues but then it will be time to do it again. So obviously this is a new clock movement benefit.
Every time the movement needs to have work done on it or needs bushings, it will last less and less time before it needs attention again. So another new clock movement benefit is that this would not happen.
The repair process is expensive because it takes time to separate the plates, remove all the gears, do the necessary work, and then put them all back together again.
This process may need to be redone if not perfect the first time. The turn around time to complete an overhaul on a clock movement could be anywhere from 1 to 3 months, and in some extreme cases, a year.
It is a slow moving venture that costs twice as much as a new movement would. If a new clock movement is not available, then this is the best, and only, way to handle a clock repair.
Replacing with a new clock movement
If the clock movement is still in production, it is far better to just get the new clock movement. Mass production makes the movement so affordable it will cost a fraction of the price of the repair work.
The new clock movement will be the same one but brand new and ready to run 30 years without much complaint. There is absolutely no way to repair an old clock movement so that it is better than new.
Even the best clockmaker using the best equipment cannot make the clock movement better than a new one.
A new clock movement is a factory fresh restart. The clock will be like it was originally when you first made the purchase from the store. The new clock movement will be made by the same people, with the same machines, and the clock movement is the same.
It is not a close replica or made somewhere else besides Germany. It is the same movement. Not a knock off or replica. So wouldn't it make sense to get the new clock movement instead of chasing the old?
The choice is clear and obvious. The new movement will cost a fraction of the price and the clock is up and running in no time.
Movements That Would Need a Repair or an Overhaul
If a new clock movement is not possible, then a repair is most likely the only option. However we will try to convert it to a new clock movement that is close and easy to adapt.
If it is not an easy one to adapt, or would take too much case work, then the best solution is to have us work on it. Another clock movement to consider having restored instead of replacing it is the tubular bell, which is a high end movement.
The price of a tubular bell new clock movement makes an overhaul more attractive. This is due to the high price on the new clock movements which is over $1600.
Usually the price is less for the new unit but instead these new clock movements are more costly than the overhaul by Clockworks anyway.
We can charge a much lower amount for the complete overhaul on these units. Ultimately the choice is yours. There is a good argument in both directions that makes sense on these expensive new clock movements.
Clockworks = The best repair service
We would love to do the clock movement overhaul here at Clockworks and we do the best job. There are two ways to fix clocks; the easy way and the hard way. We only repair clock movements the hard way with no short cuts.
Even with new clock movements, we inspect them and make sure all is well before shipping them out. It is even more important for us to do your repair than another company because we do not go to your house. There is no one being intrusive in your home and possibly damaging your clock case.
The clock movement itself is the only item that gets sent to us. No components need to be sent since we have everything else here such as weights, dials and pendulums. It is a great advantage to have Clockworks work on your clock movement for this fact alone.
A clock supply depot such as us does not need to wait for parts. We possess everything we could possibly need to complete a thorough, professional clock repair right here. If a new clock movement is not possible, then this repair is your best and only option.
The new movement
New clock movement benefits usually do indeed outweigh the repair option. The movement will already have lubrication with clock oil so there is no need to oil it.
This is everything that comes out when you remove the two screws that are under the clock movement, besides the dial and weights.
Once you get the hands and the clock dial out of the way (instructions are sent via email) it's only a matter of removing the two screws from underneath.
The new clock movement can then be put in by someone with experience in 10 or 15 minutes. A person with no experience will take longer, but the point is that it isn't hard to do. This is definitely a new clock movement benefit.
There are some instances where a clock case was made in an annoying way that makes it more difficult, but for clock movements that were in a mass production this is not the situation. This relates more to a few individual clockmakers who's design of the case makes it more tricky to get the new clock movement in or out.
Their stamp and number was on the movement instead of the Hermle number. Since it is not a Hermle number, the number would need to have a conversion to the real number. Correspondingly, this is done with the Mason and Sullivan chart, or the Seth Thomas conversion Chart.
However the Seth Thomas chart is not very accurate, please see instructions on that page.
Best to replace the movement
It is best to replace the clock movement if either of these names are on the movement automatically. Of course, do not have to think and decide if a repair is better, the answer is a simple no. These companies went out of business a long ago and the life of the unit is over.
Ordinarily, the lifetime is 25 - 30 years before it needs an overhaul or replacement. In fact, if ST or Mason Sullivan is on the movement that would indicate the clock is about 40 years old or more.
The other Hermle Clock Movement Aliases are easy
All in all, Hermle Clock Movement Aliases on other clocks use only their name, and not their own internal numbering system on the Hermle movements. So basically if the clock is of post war German origin just look at the number and forget the name.
Additionally, the numbers will indicate what movement it is. If it is a Hermle movement there are 3 or 4 digits then a hyphen, and then 3 more digits. For example, 1161-853 or 340-020 or 351-060. If the numbers look like this it is made by Hermle.
Other Names Used
Mason & Sullivan
Hermle Number Examples
Below are some typical examples of the Hermle clock movement numbering system. If the clock numbers are similar to this, it is made by Hermle.
If the Hermle clock movement is not found on these pages we may still have it as a conversion or we may be able to create it out of what exists. However, we need to know the movement number.
So please email the movement number. Of course a picture of the back plate is also helpful. Moreover, if the movement numbers do not look like the Hermle movement numbers it may be made by someone else.
Additionally, the mechanical movement identification page will assist with determining who made the clock. In any event, this is for post WW2 modern mechanical clock movements made in Germany only.
461 Hermle Clock Movement
The numbers on the back plate of the 461 Hermle Clock Movement is everything one needs to get a replacement. If the numbers match then the movement matches. Please be sure to select the proper CM length that matches the old unit.