Please view these information tabs to learn more about the 351-020 and other Hermle Clock Movement 350/351 units
Hermle clock 351 - 350 movement
Hermle clock 351 - 350 movement is a popular movement for the bracket style shelf mantle clock. Its basically the same clock movement as the 341 series except the plate size is 20mm bigger. Such as the 341-020 compared to the 351-020. Or the 340-020 compared to the 350-020 are the same unit, but the plate size. The 351 and 350 has larger outer plates overall. However they are not cross compatible because the winding arbors are not quite the same. So the dial on one will not fit a the other movement.
The 351 - 350 movement Hermle clock series has Westminster chime and with a 120mm square outer plate size. It comes in a pendulum version such as the 351-020 or the non pendulum balance wheel version like the 350-020. The balance kind just has a balance wheel more like a watch on the top of the movement that acts as the escapement.
This is beneficial in that it cant be out of beat and its fine to be off level. Also to move from here to there with no reset up of the clock. All of these Hermle clock 351 - 350 movements take a key size 8 to wind them up and the run time is 8 days in a single wind. These units are all spring driven with the exception being the 351-830 and 351-850. Those units are special as they have two springs and one weight for the center. Often the center weight will be split into two weights on a yoke.
The hammer locations are variable on this series. The 5 hammer bottom strike 351-020 pendulum, or 350-020 balance units are the most used, the movement does not take much depth and so it can be put into a shallow clock case no problem. Same with the side strike 5 hammer units like the 351-030, it fits into a shallow depth well. Other hammer locations are the back 4 on one side and 4 on the other like the 351-050 unit. Then lastly as in the 351-060 unit you can have 5 hammers diagonally on the back instead.
This is a Westminster chime unit. What this means is it will play Westminster progressively as it runs through the quarter hours. On the top of the hour we get to celebrate with the entire song and then it will strike out whatever hour it is.
Placing an order
The movement come as the movement itself with its hand nut, comes with the suspension spring and leader if its the pendulum style Hermle clock 351 - 350 movement. The movement will come already oiled and ready to go. It will come with instructions by email, if you get stuck you can just ask us to help if you have issues beyond the instructions. This family has been working on clocks for literally 100 years, if you have a question, just ask us! And it does not matter if the clock movement is out of warranty either, even years after it does not matter. The factory warranty on this unit is 3 years.
- Less cost than a cleaning in most cases
- Should last 25-30 years, a repair would not
- Easy to install, we can help if needed
- Ships same day as order
Hermle Clock Movement Identification
Most important is the identification of the Hermle clock movement and it requires locating the numbers on the back plate of the movement itself. This can be done by removing access panels, sticking a phone inside and taking a picture, or even a mirror. Use any possible means to get the number of the Hermle clock movement. This information is not in the manual that came with the clock or on the wood case. On the back plate of the Hermle clock movement there are numbers such as 451-050 94 cm. These numbers indicate everything there is to know about that particular mechanical Hermle clock movement.
Identification is the first step
In order to purchase a new Hermle clock movement, the old number has to match up with the new one. In short, the new movement will be exactly the same. It is not a knock off. Generally speaking, all of the existing clock components will fit the new movement. Proper identification is important when troubleshooting, ordering parts, or discussing compatible components for a Hermle clock movement. Thus, when contacting us it is imperative to correctly reference the number on the backplate of the movement. If there is any confusion, send us a picture of the back plate, as close and as clear as possible, and we can help identify which Hermle clock movement is needed.
A new Hermle clock movement is best
To clarify, as previously discussed in several sections, a new Hermle clock movement is always best. A new unit is a fraction of the price of an overhaul. The clock will be up and running much faster than waiting months for an overhaul to be completed. The new Hermle clock movement will last another 30 years. This is not possible with a restored unit.
Timing a balance clock movement
Balance Clock Movement Timing is done fairly easy. There are three types clock balance movement styles used after 1950. This section is for those balance units that do not have a platform escapement. The platform escapement can be read about in another section. These notes are only for the larger balance wheel in the top center of the clock movement. This was used by Urgos 6/ series and many of the Hermle clock movements. Such as 340-020 and 350-020. Out of these you have two styles, the old style and then the new style. The old style was used all through the 70's and 80's and 90's. Around this time that they switched to the new style on the Hermle units and by this time the Urgos units were out of production.
The old style
The old style is one with a round spring that goes up and down (Vertical). It goes in a circle around the center arbor of the balance wheel. In this style there is a slide arm with a tiny weight on the balance wheel itself. There is a + and - on the wheel. To speed up time go towards the plus sign. However this style is not always easy to regulate and can be very hard to get it perfect. The factory has special devices to make it perfect. However it’s not that easy on the customer end with this style balance. For this reason it has been improved upon during future manufacturing.
If you have the old style balance then your clock movement has some age to it. If this is the situation it is just best to replace the unit with the new one. Clockworks offers the movement brand new with the new style balance for less than the cost of a cleaning. Your clock movement has lasted you 25 years or more. In theory the new unit should last more than this with the improved aspects.
The new style
The units offered on this page all have the new and improved balance assemblies. Despite the change on the balance, these units are a direct fit and will install in the clock case the exact same way as the old unit. If the numbers match from the old unit to the numbers offered on this page, than the movement will be the exact same. It will be the same as it is now but brand new and with the improved balance.
The improved upon balance units have a different kind of hairspring (Horizontal). It will also have a screw to regulate it rather than a slider arm. The regulator screw is on the back of the movement near the balance. There is a + and - sign next to it meaning fast or slow. If the clock needs to be faster to keep time then the screw would be turned to the plus and opposite for slowing time.
Mechanical Clock Movement Wear
Mechanical clock movement wears out after years go by because the oil turns solid. With age, the mechanical clock movement's oil solidifies and becomes black and sticky. By the time 20 or 30 years go by, the oil has solidified and is creating wear on the brass plates of the movement. So, when this happens, the clock movement will not run correctly. This is when the movement will need a cleaning at least, or be replaced. Of course, a brand new movement is always your best option.
What wear and where
Look at your old clock movement, and see holes in the brass plates where there are small pivot arbors sticking into these holes. These pivots are what the gears of the clock ride upon and as the pivots spin in the solidified oil, this makes the holes oblong instead of round. With the pivot holes oblong, the holes are pinching the pivots and creating resistance in the gear train. With the solidified oil and the pinched pivots, the clock will eventually stop working or chiming.
Invisible clock movement wear
This wear takes place in the holes that are in the brass plates and is hard to identify sometimes. These holes in the brass plates become oblong instead of round and this pinches the pivot arbor going into it. Between this, and the solid oil, the clock ceases to function. To have this repaired is an expensive and long process. To have a mechanical movement serviced can cost two times as much or even three times the amount of the new one. However, once the movement starts having problems due to the oblong pivot holes, something will need to be done. The clock will never stay running otherwise.
New Clock Movement Benefits
New clock movement benefits far outweigh the benefits of an . This section will explain why that is and what the best course of action is to get your clock working.
Getting the movement worked on
Clocks need to have fresh oil after 10 years or so. Then, after 20 or 30 years, a full break down of the movement is necessary. This is all well and good and can be done with the old movement. The movement will run for another 5 or 15 years with no issues but then it will be time to do it again. So obviously this is a new clock movement benefit.
Every time the movement needs to have work done on it or needs bushings, it will last less and less time before it needs attention again. So another new clock movement benefit is that this would not happen. The repair process is expensive because it takes time to separate the plates, remove all the gears, do the necessary work, and then put them all back together again. This process may need to be redone if not perfect the first time. The turn around time to complete an overhaul could be anywhere from 1 to 3 months, and in some extreme cases, a year. It is a slow moving venture that costs twice as much as a new movement would. If a new clock movement is not available, then this is the best, and only, way to handle a clock repair.
Replacing with a new clock movement
If the movement is still in production, it is far better to just get a new clock movement. Mass production makes the movement so affordable it will cost a fraction of the price of the repair work. The movement will be the same one but brand new and ready to run 30 years without much complaint. There is absolutely no way to repair an old movement so that it is better than new. Even the best clockmaker using the best equipment cannot make the movement better than a new one.
A new clock movement is a factory fresh restart. The clock will be like it was originally when you first made the purchase from the store. The new movement will be made by the same people, with the same machines, and the movement is the same. It is not a close replica or made somewhere else besides Germany. It is the same movement. Not a knock off or replica. So wouldn't it make sense to get the new clock movement instead of chasing the old? The choice is clear and obvious. The new movement will cost a fraction of the price and the clock is up and running in no time.
Movements That Would Need a Repair or an Overhaul
If a unit is no longer in production and not available new, then a repair is most likely the only option. However we will try to convert it to a new clock movement that is close and easy to adapt. If it is not an easy one to adapt, or would take too much case work, then the best solution is to have us work on it.
Another movement to consider having restored instead of replacing it is the tubular bell, which is a high end movement. The price of a tubular bell unit makes an overhaul more attractive. This is due to the high price on the new clock movements which is over $1600. Usually the price is less for the new unit but instead these units are more costly than the overhaul by Clockworks anyway. We can charge a much lower amount for the complete overhaul on these units. Ultimately the choice is yours. There is a good argument in both directions that makes sense on these expensive new clock movements.
Clockworks = The best repair service
We would love to do the overhaul here at Clockworks and we do the best job. There are two ways to fix clocks; the easy way and the hard way. We only do it the hard way with no short cuts. It is even more important for us to do your repair than another company because we do not go to your house. There is no one being intrusive in your home and possibly damaging your clock case.
The movement itself is the only item that gets sent to us. No components need to be sent since we have everything else here such as weights, dials and pendulums. It is a great advantage to have Clockworks work on your movement for this fact alone. A clock supply depot such as us does not need to wait for parts. We possess everything we could possibly need to complete a thorough, professional clock repair right here.
The new movement
New clock movement benefits usually do indeed outweigh the repair option. The movement will already have lubrication with clock oil so there is no need to oil it. The clock comes with cables and pulleys, or chains, the leader, and suspension spring. This is everything that comes out when you remove the two screws that are under the movement, besides the dial and weights.
Once you get the hands and the clock dial out of the way (instructions are sent via email) it's only a matter of removing the two screws from underneath. The new clock movement can then be put in by someone with experience in 10 or 15 minutes. A person with no experience will take longer, but the point is that it isn't hard to do. This is definitely a new clock movement benefit. There are some instances where a clock case was made in an annoying way that makes it more difficult, but for clocks that were in a mass production this is not the situation. This relates more to a few individual clockmakers who's design of the case makes it more tricky to get the movement in or out.
Summary of New Clock Movement Benefits
A new clock movement is typically less than half the cost of an overhaul. It will also be on its way to the customer instantly instead of months later. A new clock movement will last the longest of any other choice.
Hermle Clock Movement Aliases
Hermle produces clock movements but the use of aliases is quite prevalent. The movement could have a stamp with any name but really it will be made by Hermle. Some companies bought so many movements that they were able to get their name on the movement instead of Hermle. The following is only a partial list of names that could be on the clock movement.
The best Aliases in Disguise
Seth Thomas and Mason and Sullivan had not only their name, but also their own internal numbering system. Their stamp and number was on the movement instead of the Hermle number. Since it is not a Hermle number, the number would need to have a conversion to the real number. Correspondingly, this is done with the Mason and Sullivan chart, or the Seth Thomas conversion Chart. However the Seth Thomas chart is not very accurate, please see instructions on that page.
Best to replace the movement
It is best to replace the clock movement if either of these names are on the movement automatically. Of course, you do not have to think and decide if a repair is better, the answer is a simple no. These companies went out of business a long ago and the life of the unit is over. Ordinarily, the lifetime is 25 - 30 years before it needs an overhaul or replacement. In fact, if ST or Mason Sullivan is on the movement that would indicate the clock is about 40 years old or more.
The other Hermle Clock Movement Aliases are easy
All in all, Hermle Clock Movement Aliases on other clocks use only their name, and not their own internal numbering system on the Hermle movements. So basically if the clock is of post war German origin you can just look at the number and forget the name. Additionally, the numbers will indicate what movement it is. If it is a Hermle movement there are 3 or 4 digits then a hyphen, and then 3 more digits. For example, 1161-853 or 340-020 or 351-060. If the numbers look like this it is made by Hermle.
Other Names Used
- S. Larose
- Mason & Sullivan
- Tally Industries
- Seth Thomas
- Howard Miller
Hermle Number Examples
Below are some typical examples of the Hermle clock movement numbering system. If the clock numbers are similar to this, it is made by Hermle.
- 451-050 94cm
- 451-030 66cm
- 341-020 45cm
- 1151-050 114cm
- 451-053 94cm
- 1161-853 114cm
- 141-070 45cm
- 351-050 55cm
- 1161-850 94cm
- 241-070 94cm
Hermle Clock Movement
The numbers on the back plate of the 350 or 351 Hermle Clock Movement is everything one needs to get a replacement. If the numbers match then the movement will match. So if is says 350 or 351 and the rest of your numbers, it will be the correct one.
- Brand New and Original
- Westminster Chime
- Plate size 120 x 120mm
- Spring Driven
- Includes Leader
- A fraction of the price of an overhaul
- Should last 25-30 years, an overhaul would not
- Instructions and expert support
- Hermle Clock Movement of Germany
Ordering a Hermle Clock Movement
The numbers off of the back plate of the movement itself are needed when ordering a Hermle clock movement. The numbers are matched up so the new movement will be exactly the same as the old one. Replacing the movement is a fraction of the price of a repair. It is also the fastest way to get the clock up and running again.
Clock movement removal and installation
Removing and installing the clock movement requires the most basic tools. If you can change the spark plug on your lawn mower, this will be a breeze. All of the Hermle clock movements are in stock and ship immediately. We are full time clock makers and retailers. This means we can help you from start to finish. If you need assistance in picking out the correct Hermle clock movement, installation or troubleshooting, we can help. Please do not hesitate to ask.
Matching the CM when ordering
This note only applies if the current Hermle clock movement has a pendulum. Please match up the CM length from the back plate of the old unit to the new one. The options in the drop down menu ultimately indicate stock items that are available. However, if there is a CM number that is needed and is not listed, we can usually create it by changing some gears. If this is the situation please give us a call 800 381 7458. There is an extra fee for regearing the movement. Usually this is an additional fee of $30 to $40.
Replacing a movement is less costly than an overhaul. The movement will last another 25 years before needing any work. Since it is still in production, and offered at a very reasonable price, it makes sense to replace the movement. The clock will be problem free right away, instead of months. Plus it will inevitably last longer than an even the best overhaul. There is no way you can get better than brand new. So please make the wise decision of replacing whenever possible.
Hermle Clock Movement Directory Explanation
Above all, the Hermle clock movement directory is to get to the correct page that contains the proper clock movement. This is an important first step when ordering a new clock movement. Thus, Hermle mechanical movements have numbers on the back plate starting with the below few numbers. Then a dash (-) follows and then some more numbers. For example: 340-020 131-070 1161-853 351-020 and so forth. So, if the clock says something like 1161-053 drop the second half and click the 1161 button below. Then this will bring up the page where the 1161-053 is as well as the rest of the 1161 series.
Hermle Clock Movement Directory, Number starts with.....
If Not Listed
If the old Hermle clock movement is not found on these pages we may still have it as a conversion or we may be able to create it out of what exists. However, we need to know the movement number. So please email your movement number. Of course a picture of the back plate is also helpful. Moreover, if your movement numbers do not look like the Hermle movement numbers it may be made by someone else. Additionally, the mechanical movement identification page will assist you with determining who made the clock. In any event, this is for post WW2 modern mechanical clock movements made in Germany only.