Hermle 340-341 clock-movement notes
Hermle 340-341 clock-movement notes
Hermle 340-341 clock-movement notes begins with a little history. This is such a popular little movement, with so many sold, and for good reasons. It is compact and versatile, hard working and cost efficient. Also, the movement will work 20 or 30 years night and day without much complaint.
Can fit into tight places, it can come in either a pendulum version or a balance wheel instead. The advantage of a balance wheel is there is no pendulum to put in beat, you can move it without readjusting the beat.
Also with a balance wheel you never have to care if its level or not. The pendulum unit advantage is that louder tick tock sound. If the pendulum is visible through the glass it is a nice hypnotic thing to look at and listen to.
The Movement
A size 8 key winds up both the 340 and 341 clock movements, a single wind lasts 8 days. In addition, it will be ready for installation upon arrival. The 340 and 341 Hermle clock movement series comes with an application of oil on it and is ready to go.
Sold as the movement itself with its hand nut and hammers. If a pendulum unit, it will come with its suspension spring and leader. Already oiled Hermle 340-341 clock movement comes ready for installation.
The Chime
Westminster progressively playing each quarter hour, and the full song on the top of the hour. The striking out of the hours follows this.
The hammer location on these units are on the bottom, with 5 hammer heads that strike chime rods. This aspect does not vary on these units, they are all consistent with the 5 hammer below attribute on all 340 and 341 movements.
Does not include Chime On / Off switch
If the clock has an on and off switch now, remove it by taking out the one screw and putting it on the new movement. The new movement does not have this chime on / off switch. The location of this is sometimes on the right side of the front plate.
Improved Balance on Hermle 340 clock movement series
The old style balance units such as the 340-020 had a spiral spring vertical up the balance. The improvements on the new style will be a horizontal spring and the F / S adjustment is by a set screw. The timing will already be done at the factory anyways so setting the time will only be slight.
It might not need it at all. This change is a big improvement so the life expectancy of this new unit should surpass the old one. Everything will fit the same.
Hammer Positioning the 340 / 341 series
The 340 and 341 Hermle clock movement series went through a change in the hammer wires. The hammer heads used to be on wires now they are made on flat bars. This is dealt with in the same way as above, it is just not as easy to bend.
The hammer head is on the skinny end of the bar, the bar gets wider as it goes back toward the roll pin. The point to bend this bar is at the place where it goes from skinny to wide with needle nose pliers. The overall assembly will be higher from the chime block slightly.
That is if swapping out the movement with the wire hammer head rod older style. It is an option to raise the entire chimeblock with a shim underneath it to help with this. It is not an absolute requirement, bending the hammer arms are usually sufficient.
Different Hammer Head Wires
The older 341 and 340 series clock movements had the chime hammer head on wires instead of flat bars. The new style being sent will have the flat bars with the hammer heads on the end.
It makes no difference to fitting the movement into the case, but it may make a difference as far as bending the rods to meet the chime rods. Bending of the chime hammers to be 1/8 inch away from the rod at rest is the goal.
This is what was done when the case was built and the original movement was put in. However, the older wire style could be bent in a more extreme manner than the new style. What could previously be bent an inch with ease is now not as easily done with the flat bars. In some rare cases it would be best to put a shim under the chime block to make up for the gap.
- A fraction of the price of an overhaul
- Should last 25-30 years, an overhaul would not
- Instructions and expert support
- Hermle Clock Movement of Germany
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Do the strike and time springs have different strengths, as our time side winder is much harder to turn
Yes different and usually not as strong. The time side may have been swapped for a new one at some point maybe also. If getting a week run time out of the clock, its fine.
James Stoudenmire
40yr Clockmaker
Author of Clockworks.com
I have a Hermle 1161-852 which works almost perfect. The issue is the last 4 notes of the Westminster hour chime are incorrect. Is it possible that one or more of the toothed discs has rotated out of position? Can they be realigned?
See this article on the issue
https://www.clockworks.com/posts/mechanical-chime-sequence-resetting-instructions
James Stoudenmire
30yr Clockmaker
Author of Clockworks.com
Hi. My apologies in advance if my vocabulary is not correct. My Hermle 340-020A chimes at all 4 quarter hours but it is not followed by the hourly count (on the hour). All 3 springs are wound. The leftmost one (near the 9) remains tight. Could it be overwound? Or, is something else at fault? Thank you. Mark
These can be wound ALL the way up. Wind till it cannot wind up anymore.
1. Be sure the clock is wound up. You can wind this one ALL the way up. It cannot be overwound.
2. If there is a lever on your right as you face the front of the clock movement, this lever needs to be in the down position. Up is off, down is on.
3. The clock may not chime 3/4’s of the hour, as it maybe looking for the top of the hour. When it does chime the top of the hour, then you can take off the hands where ever they are pointing to, and put them back on the clock at that hour it chimed out.
4. If the clock still does not chime, try pulling back all the hammers at once with your hand and let go. This will be to release the roll pin. Try it again.
5 If the clock still will not chime, the lever in the front of the movement maybe stuck in UP from shipping. Either lift the movement up and shake it up and down to get it to drop, or just look at it and make sure the levers on the front are loose and down. Particularly the one on the top right as you look at the front of the movement.
James Stoudenmire
30yr Clockmaker
Author of Clockworks.com
Sorry, correcting my previous post:
even the Westminster Melody WON’T finish the Melody
1. Be sure the clock is wound up. You can wind this one ALL the way up. It cannot be overwound.
2. If there is a lever on your right as you face the front of the clock movement, this lever needs to be in the down position. Up is off, down is on.
3. The clock may not chime 3/4’s of the hour, as it maybe looking for the top of the hour. When it does chime the top of the hour, then you can take off the hands where ever they are pointing to, and put them back on the clock at that hour it chimed out.
4. If the clock still does not chime, try pulling back all the hammers at once with your hand and let go. This will be to release the roll pin. Try it again.
5 If the clock still will not chime, the lever in the front of the movement maybe stuck in UP from shipping. Either lift the movement up and shake it up and down to get it to drop, or just look at it and make sure the levers on the front are loose and down. Particularly the one on the top right as you look at the front of the movement.
James Stoudenmire
30yr Clockmaker
Author of Clockworks.com
My 340-020 won’t finish the Melody at each quarter of hour. And the Westminster Melody wind finish at every hour.
Not finding your order, what is your order number?
Is this a new unit?
James Stoudenmire
30yr Clockmaker
Author of Clockworks.com
Why do the new 340 020 movements not have the “Chime On/Off Switch”? Is there now no way to turn off the chime? I like that feature and use it at night.
There is no chime shut off anymore on this series. It would not be so hard to think of a way to make it quiet on the customers end with some creativity if absolutely needed. Sometimes, depending on the production runs, the silent arm can be attached from the old unit to the new unit with only one flat head screw removed.
James Stoudenmire
30yr Clockmaker
Author of Clockworks.com
I can’t find anything in the instructions about what the three wind arbors do. Which ones are for the chimes, and which one is for the actual clock?
Just let the clock chime, say one of the 3 quarters, and look at the inside of the case to see what moves. Then let it do the full chime which should release the hour strike. Watch again and you will know.
The clock weights come down at different speeds depending on alot of factors.
The left hand (your left as you face the clock) is the strike side so it will strike more times at 12 instead of 1, so the weight will come down more at 12 strikes.
The center weight goes even down as long as the pendulum is swinging
The right one is the chime, and will come down more on the top of the hour with the long song, than say the first quarter.
If only the time center weight is coming down a lot more than the others, it only means the chimes are not turned on.
James Stoudenmire
30yr Clockmaker
Author of Clockworks.com
SA customer thinks that his pendulum clock with a 341 – 020 movement is much older than the date: 66 stamped on the backplate. could that be a code? ( I don’think so ) Regards, Thomas
Hi,
Please see this article on dating the Hermle clock movement
https://www.clockworks.com/posts/hermle-movement-date-codes
James Stoudenmire
30yr Clockmaker
Author of Clockworks.com
I have a mantle clock that has a Hermle 341-020 movement. I have had nothing but trouble with it. Can the 341-020 be replaced with a Hermle 340-020 balance wheel type.
Yes it sure can. Please order teh 340-020 from this link
https://www.clockworks.com/product/new-340-020-clock-movement
James Stoudenmire
30yr Clockmaker
Author of Clockworks.com
i have a Howard Miller mantle clock. With a Hermle 340-020 movement, what is the best way to dampen the chime
The volume will vary depending on if you have the clock on hardwood or a rug or against the wall or not.
James
Hi my dad gave me his W Haid 340-020. It chimes constantly on the hour. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
This have to do with the mechanics in the front part of the movement, behind the dial .
When getting to the front of the movement , observe the racks motion during the strike. The rack is the saw like thing that drops down onto the snail looking thing that is part of the hour hand tube. If the rack is not connecting to the snail in a proper way, the strike will not strike the proper amount of times.
The best way to learn the mechanics of these components is to simply watch them in action. If the rack is getting stuck on anything or if it falls behind the hour tubes “snail”, then the clock will strike the same amount of times every time, forever or some number beyond 12 times. It can fall behind the snail by changing hands, since the hour tube has the snail on it, it moves forward upon removing the hour hand. This can cause the rack to fall behind the snail and therefore does no good for counting strikes like it’s supposed to. The fix is to lift this rack with your finger and push the hour hand tube back so the rack falls on it.
James
Many Thanks !
James and Donna Stoudenmire http://www.clockworks.com 124 Goss Hill = UPS Mailing PO Box 339 = USPS Mailing Huntington, MA 01050 USA clockworks@clockworks.com
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I have a 341-020 that I need and 8″ dial for. However I cannot determine or find reference to what dials fit what movement. Is there such information and can new dials be purchased?
Hi
Sorry do not have an 8 inch dial at this time for that clock
I have a Hamilton mantel clock with the 340-020 movement, circa 1978. The chime rod closest to the back access panel broke off from the setscrew. I soldered it back together and reinserted the rod into the block. The tone of the chime is now off somewhat. Is there a way to re-tune the chime?
Please order the 340-020 (when its finally time to do so) from this link https://www.clockworks.com/product/new-340-020-clock-movement
Why Chime Hammer Positioning is required
Mechanical clock chime hammer positioning is easy to do, and only involves bending the hammer head wires. Upon the initial installation, this was done by the clock maker as well.
When replacing a clock movement you need to bend the chime hammers to the chime rods . This is why the hammer heads are on bendable wires. They are meant to be bent into the perfect position. It is not uncommon to bend them an inch this way or that way. The clock movement will not have the hammers in the perfect spot to make the correct sound when hitting the rods. This is why chime hammer positioning is so important.
Clock Chime Hammer Positioning
A mechanical clock movement has hammers that need to be bent into their final position. The clock-chime hammer position should be so the tops of the hammer heads are about 1/4 inch down from the chime block . The hammers need to be 1/8 inch away from the rod when at rest. In other words, bend the hammer wires so the head is 1/8 away from the chime rod. This spacing between the head and the rod is so it will not thud or double strike.
Tuning the mechanical clock chime
Down the line, and one hammer at a time, repeat this process. Continue in this manner until you can lift and drop the hammer to create a crisp sound.
If each hammer head is done this way the clock will have a nice song in the end. Often a customer will say the sound is not correct. It is because of improper hammer positioning that this occurs. When you perform the above directions correctly the sound is beautiful.
Positioning the 340 / 341 series
The 340 and 341 Hermle clock movement series went through a change in the hammer wires. The hammer heads used to be on wires now they are made on flat bars. This is dealt with in the same way as above, it is just not as easy to bend. The hammer head is on the skinny end of the bar, the bar gets wider as it goes back toward the roll pin. The point to bend this bar is at the place where it goes from skinny to wide with needle nose pliers. The overall assembly will be higher from the chime block slightly. That is if swapping out the movement with the wire hammer head rod older style. It is an option to raise the entire chimeblock with a shim underneath it to help with this. It is not an absolute requirement, bending the hammer arms are usually sufficient.
My 340 clock works losses 4 to 5 minutes per day. I cannot find an adjustment setting area. The works are still mounted in the case and my access is the back of the clock works.
Timing a balance clock movement
Balance Clock Movement Timing is done fairly easy. There are three types clock balance movement styles used after 1950. This section is for those balance units that do not have a platform escapement. The platform escapement can be read about in another section. These notes are only for the larger balance wheel in the top center of the clock movement. This was used by Urgos 6/ series and many of the Hermle clock movements. Such as 340-020 and 350-020 .
Out of these you have two styles, the old style and then the new style. The old style was used all through the 70’s and 80’s and 90’s. Around this time that they switched to the new style on the Hermle units and by this time the Urgos units were out of production.
The old style
The old style is one with a round spring that goes up and down (Vertical).
It goes in a circle around the center arbor of the balance wheel. In this style there is a slide arm with a tiny weight on the balance wheel itself.
There is a + and – on the wheel. To speed up time go towards the plus sign.
However this style is not always easy to regulate and can be very hard to get it perfect. The factory has special devices to make it perfect. However it’s not that easy on the customer end with this style balance. For this reason it has been improved upon during future manufacturing.
If you have the old style balance then your clock movement has some age to it. If this is the situation it is just best to replace the unit with the new one. Clockworks offers the movement brand new with the new style balance for less than the cost of a cleaning. Your clock movement has lasted you 25 years or more. In theory the new unit should last more than this with the improved aspects.
The new style
The units offered on this page all have the new and improved balance assemblies. Despite the change on the balance, these units are a direct fit and will install in the clock case the exact same way as the old unit. If the numbers match from the old unit to the numbers offered on this page, than the movement will be the exact same. It will be the same as it is now but brand new and with the improved balance.
The improved upon balance units have a different kind of hairspring (Horizontal). It will also have a screw to regulate it rather than a slider arm. The regulator screw is on the back of the movement near the balance.
There is a + and – sign next to it meaning fast or slow. If the clock needs to be faster to keep time then the screw would be turned to the plus and opposite for slowing time.
My clock has stopped ,340-020A.
Problem seems to be at the hairspring in the platform escapement.
Can I replace this escapement unit and what is cost ??
I am writing from Perth in Western Australia
New movement at this link https://www.clockworks.com/product/new-340-020-clock-movement
If ok, please let me know the town in w. AU to calculate shipping along with the zip code